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NDNation.com Staff: Scott Engler - Michael Cash - John Vannie - Mike Coffey - Kayo - Bacchus

Sunday, November 23, 2008

It's Time

posted by Mike Coffey
This one really hurts.

The last two didn't hurt, but this one does.

Okay, the last two hurt, but not in the same way. The last two times we fired guys, they were guys who didn't really care about ND as a place and decided to treat it as a career way-station on their planned route to College Station, TX, or the NFL. The losses and ineptitude that brought us to their dismissals were painful, but the solution was not.

This solution, however necessary, is different. Charlie Weis was a lot of things, but carpetbagger certainly wasn't one of them. When he told a recruit about the special aspects of the Grotto, he spoke from the heart. He spoke from the soul. He connected to Notre Dame and connected with us, and in doing so, brought hope things would turn around.

That connection kept Weis' head above water last year during a horrific 3-9 campaign that was as much his own doing as caused by his predecessor's recruiting shortfalls. But at 6-5, in the wake of one of the worst losses in Notre Dame football history and staring down the barrel of a top-10 team in Los Angeles that needs style points if they wants to play in the BCS championship game, that connection is dragging us down with him.

It's time to cut the connection before we all drown.

There really is no alternative. For the second consecutive season, ND will finish with a worse won-loss record than its talent would indicate. For the fourth consecutive season, ND will look worse in its last game than it did in its first. John Walters ran the numbers, and Charlie Weis sits today after four years with the exact same win percentage his two predecessors had on the day they were fired. It wasn't good enough then, and it's certainly not good enough now.

Weis said it himself: We didn't bring him here to go .500.

Dylan over at BGS described Jack Swarbrick as, "having barely opened his office door, has found the whole place to be on fire". Fair or not, football coaching hires are how AD's are judged, and it's Swarbrick at the bat, or with the fire extinguisher at least.

In a perfect world, he would have been sounding out potential replacements early to make this as seamless as possible. I'm willing to bet a lot of money that hasn't happened. But fear not, such things are still possible, and time remains.

Weis, in retrospect, was a poor hire. But I gain hope from the hiring track record of the current administration since that day. On the academic side, Tom Burish seems to have been a good get at Provost, there are a number of excellent candidates on the short list for the Law School, and even the most curmudgeonly curmudgeon on Rock's House applauded Marianne Corr's hiring as General Counsel. On the athletic side, Jeff Jackson prowls the blue line in the Joyce Center after taking Notre Dame to its first Frozen Four.

Good hires of people more than capable in their field seem to have been made in recent years, all without the word "residentiality" being uttered. This tells me the people involved know how to hire. If they all of a sudden can't get it done in football, that will tell me a whole list of other things, none of them good.

But in the spirit of hope springing eternal, I think it's important to remind all my gentle readers of the things all previous successful ND coaches since Rockne have had in common:

All were very experienced as a college coach. Elmer Layden had coached for nine years prior to arriving in South Bend. Ara Parseghian had 13 years' experience. Dan Devine and Lou Holtz both coached their 17th season in their first year at ND. The only exception to this rule was Frank Leahy, but he got quite a bit done in his two years at BC.

All had coached at the top levels of college before coming to ND. Duquesne was a strong program when Leyden was there. Ara coached in the Big 10, Devine in the Big 8 (now Big XII), Lou in the SWC and Big 10. Again, Leahy stands out with BC being an independent, but also again, what he did there makes up for it.

All had coached at least one major college team to an undefeated season, a top-10 ranking, or a major NYD bowl. Layden's 1929 Duquesne team went 9-0-1 and his 1933 team went 10-1 and won what is now called the Orange Bowl. In two years at BC, Leahy's teams went to the Cotton and Sugar bowls. Ara had Northwestern ranked #1 during his career, an unheard-of achievement in those days. Devine had an undefeated season at ASU, and had four top-ten finishes and went to three Orange Bowls and a Sugar Bowl at Mizzou. Lou was an Orange, Fiesta, and Sugar Bowl veteran by the time he arrived in South Bend, and had four top-10 finishes to his credit to boot, including one at NC State.

So it can be conclusively proven that Notre Dame has had success when led by an experienced, known-commodity coach. The myth once perpetrated by a former administration official that "Notre Dame makes coaches, not the other way around" is just that, a myth.

Unfortunately for us, however, these men also had two other things in common:

They were not in good coaching situations when they were hired. Notre Dame represented a step up or a dream come true for all of these men. Layden and Leahy were alumni. ND was a bigger stage and could give more than the Integer outlets at which Ara and Lou toiled. Devine was coming off a failed attempt to coach the Packers.

It definitely takes more moxie than the norm to woo a top coach away from what might be considered a cushy job. But we are, as the commercials during the game tell us, the Fighting Irish, and I expect a fight no matter who we end up hiring. What was the title of Charlie's book? No excuses.

They weren't saints. This has been a strong refrain of NDOldTown in recent days/weeks, and in this, he is absolutely right. All these men were ethical and good people. But they also were winners, and were willing to do what it took while following the spirit of the rules to get there. They worked hard and so did their players. If they saw an advantage, they took it. And they certainly didn't have people in their job interview talking to them about the importance of Catholicism and other tertiary concerns. There's a reason the Boy Scouts don't have a football team, and as long as we aren't treating players like pieces of meat and we ensure they graduate with meaningful educations while keeping our noses clean, it's all good.

These are the times that try men's souls, times when people who aspire to be Notre Dame legends have an opportunity to prove their worth. Fr. Jenkins and Jack Swarbrick have such an opportunity now, and it may be their last. Make it count, gentlemen.

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157 Comments:

OpenID liamg19 said...

Here, here. Just watch his opening presser in 2005. Everything he said he was about and here to fix has not happened. We've gone 360 and back to being 6-5(about to be 6). And guess what? You are what you are Charlie and it's not good enough.

Love thee Notre Dame.

11/23/2008 10:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Rob said...

Right On.

Bob Davie had never been a head coach. Tyrone Willingham gave you a winning percentage at Stanford comparable with his time at Notre Dame. Charlie Weis had never been a head coach or even played. It’s simple: hire a head coach with successful head coaching experience. Even I don’t know why I continually get my hopes up only to be shocked by the results. Hire a proven winner on the college level and chances are that Notre Dame’s resources will help a coach win even more.

11/23/2008 11:02:00 AM  
Anonymous MDDomer said...

I agree 100%. It's very sad to see that Weis has failed at what he wanted more than anything to accomplish. He's a great ND person but lacks what it takes to succeed as a head coach at the college level.

11/23/2008 11:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Dillon94 said...

Yesterday's loss was Chuck's worse. The offensive line is truly offensive. Latina needed to be fired last year, yet remains. The head coach needs to be held accountable, and after such a horrific loss, it is easy to say, "fire the head coach." But reality quickly should set in - when you look at the criteria in the post above of a winning ND coach (which I agree with), you must ask yourself, "Who is out there now, that we could expect to get, that fits that bill?" We hired Weis precisely because we could NOT get someone who fulfilled that criteria - Urban Meyer was that guy, but bailed on us. Now, after a third coach fired in 7 years - who would take the job?

Last season left me saddened - now I'm simply numb.

11/23/2008 11:08:00 AM  
Blogger Michael said...

Generally,I agree,however,I request your opinion: will the All-star recruits bolt if CW is fired,is there any indication his assistant coaches are worth a damn,does he really control anything other than his smug pressers, did he make Quinn or did Samargia,who would want the job ??????

11/23/2008 11:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree Charlie might not be the right guy to lead ND back to a championship caliber team. However, I worry what another firing will do to this football program. It could be great...or it could be the death of a proud program.

11/23/2008 11:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree Charlie might not be the right guy to lead ND back to a championship caliber team. However, I worry what another firing will do to this football program. It could be great...or it could be the death of a proud program.

11/23/2008 11:13:00 AM  
Blogger Felipe said...

hate to sound like such a pessimist, but I can't see ND getting back to how we were in the '90s. We keep taking gigantic steps backwards. Good god, USC is going to kill us. Remember Carson Palmer's "heisman game"?? Get ready for another go...

11/23/2008 11:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While I do not disagree, this will be and get a lot uglier before it gets better, and we all must be prepared for the fallout.

11/23/2008 11:18:00 AM  
Blogger Michael said...

Unfortunately, now is the perfect time to fire Weis. He has proven to be excellent at one thing...recruiting. While he has proven that he cannot coach, he certainly brought the blue-chippers back to South Bend. He will leave his successor with a team stacked full of talent. We need to find a seasoned coach who can lead our talent. Urban Meyer, Stoops and Carroll all took less than 3 years to turn their programs around. With our current roster, the right coach could turn this team into a force within 1-2 years. I am afraid that his great recruiting will end as players and families see how poor of a coach he is. We need a new coach prior to Weis depleting his own talent pool. It will not be surprising that after this loss, we have defects from the incoming class. We must make a change now!

11/23/2008 11:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie talked his way out of last season. He skated by until that embarrassing loss last night. He doesn't know how to motivate or coach these college players. ND was dumb to give Weis a 10 year contract at 4 million a year. They should have paid that to Urban, and maybe he would have come to ND. We need to look at the Cincinnati coach. Look what he's done at Cinci with a fourth string QB, and two star recruits.

11/23/2008 11:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most people who know college football realized that Weis wasn't the answer over a year ago.

It's only taken three weeks for most of the ND Nation denizens to turn on a coach they had deemed the savior of the program, partly due to the fact he fits their stereotypical coach image, partly because of their bitterness over the blowback on the Willingham firing.

Weis was always arrogant and ill equipped to develop young players. He's never beaten a good team. The excuse of Willingham's poor recruiting rang hollow a long time ago. Weis has been losing to teams that even Willingham out recruited.

The bigger question is whether we can trust a university that has made one good head coaching hire in over 25 years. As a concerned alum, I'm not deluding myself into thinking they can attract someone like Saban, Stoops, Meyer, etc.

All I ask is a head coach who runs a clean program, is a good representative of the university, wins a majority of his games at home, averages about 8-9 wins per season and contends for a national championship every 7 or 8 years.

11/23/2008 11:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When choosing strategy, you need to look at how things have changed. You have to look at your culture and your attitudes and your actions in response to those things. So let's look at these things.

How the world has changed in college football

1. Having an NBC contract doesn't really help except for the money. Everybody else gets exposure so you can get talent as well.
2. There are many ways to get exposure now. Internet, expanded Cable channels. Tons of DirecTV channels.
3. The world has become more permissive, Notre Dame has not. Parietals, etc. discourage some recruits, so do academic requirements. If you stick with your rules, it is tougher to compete for athletes.
4. Look who is on top of the rankings. Alabama. Florida. USC, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma. Three Northern teams round out top ten.. Ohio State, Penn State, Boise State. It's warmer, sunnier, a little looser in the rest of the country. The girls are nicer, slimmer and they're tanned. And there's more of them.
5. All of these people are in..... a conference.

Conclusion.... if the world has been brought together more through communications and media, and conferences now dominate the rankings.... what should you do?

1. Stick to your island strategy?
2. Get a contract with NBC by yourself?

OK... let's look at your attitudes and culture.

1. You think you are anointed to win football games. It makes you think your coaching choices will be, too.

2. Most of the decision makers are priests, priests tend to think they are experts on everything. OK not all of them, but enough of them. They get to be the only valid interpreters of things religious, and they start throwing their weight around with other things, too. It's kind of a spiritual arrogance. It causes you to fall in love with your choices too soon if there is a little success. Then you blow the money we gave you on a ten year contract for Charlie.

3. "Waking up the echoes" is a cultural liability now. God doesn't care about football, but we act as if He does. It's a secular game run by secular people. Compete as if God didn't care about football and you'll do much better. Translation: God isn't putting us through a "Jonah" period inside the whale. Notre Dame did it to itself. God is not going to pull us out of this so we can win a few football games. You need to wake up your own head and compete based on....

....TODAY"S REALITIES, not past "ECHOES"

Does 17 years of no bowl game wins speak loud enough?

Does a near 2nd loss to Navy and a loss to lowly Syracuse speak loud enough?

The pattern of the last three coaches is like the performance of the stock market lately. It is that of a drowning man. He gets a burst of spirit and energy and lifts himself up for a time, but without anything else to keep him afloat, he eventually succumbs to the water and drowns. The stock market in the last few months has bobbed up and down... with a trend line that is unmistakably down. So has Notre Dame. We have a coaching change, spirits go up, and the players over-perform. Once in a while you get lucky and land a great throwback Catholic boy like Brady and Jeff. Those opportunities are fewer and farther between.

Notre Dame needs a new strategy that is IN the world. Not on an island.

I'll leave it up to the rest of you to fill in the details.

11/23/2008 11:40:00 AM  
Anonymous ndwuj said...

I agree, but nobody seems to be able to give a meaningful, realistic list of candidates, availible or otherwise, to approach.
Again, Charlie is capable of, and should, ND-man-up, and voluntarily participate in finding his replacement and be offered a lesser position, even if created for him, as e.g. "recruiter/NFL liason extraordinare". It will do a lot transition-wise, soften "the buyout", and maybe create an instant ND legend!

11/23/2008 11:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would just like to point out that there are no sure hires. As much as one strives to find a common thread between all the successful ND head coaches, Leahy was only on the job 2 years at BC (with a NC, but still not what today would be called a "proven track record"), Ara was one game over .500 at Northwestern, and Devine was a flop in Green Bay. Whoever is hired next may turn out great, or he may fail. All major programs (teams like Alabama, USC, Michigan) have about a 50-50 ratio of good hires. There are NO sure things.

11/23/2008 11:43:00 AM  
Anonymous domer_in_longhorncountry said...

I'm an ND fan in Longhorn country, and I'm sure there are many like me out there. I'm hopeful every Saturday morning, crushed every Saturday night (almost), and jealous every Monday morning when the polls come out.
I don't have any answers, just venting, but this is most certainly the lowest I've felt about ND football, since '83, which even includes the Faust years.
The best thing Charlie can do right now is to step aside, waive his contract, and do the right thing by his alma mater.
Ok, time to look forward now, who's going to post a list of potential hires? I need something to look forward to...

11/23/2008 11:45:00 AM  
Anonymous therealist said...

When choosing strategy, you need to look at how things have changed. You have to look at your culture and your attitudes and your actions in response to those things. So let's look at these things.

How the world has changed in college football

1. Having an NBC contract doesn't really help except for the money. Everybody else gets exposure so you can get talent as well.
2. There are many ways to get exposure now. Internet, expanded Cable channels. Tons of DirecTV channels.
3. The world has become more permissive, Notre Dame has not. Parietals, etc. discourage some recruits, so do academic requirements. If you stick with your rules, it is tougher to compete for athletes.
4. Look who is on top of the rankings. Alabama. Florida. USC, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma. Three Northern teams round out top ten.. Ohio State, Penn State, Boise State. It's warmer, sunnier, a little looser in the rest of the country. The girls are nicer, slimmer and they're tanned. And there's more of them.
5. All of these people are in..... a conference.

Conclusion.... if the world has been brought together more through communications and media, and conferences now dominate the rankings.... what should you do?

1. Stick to your island strategy?
2. Get a contract with NBC by yourself?

OK... let's look at your attitudes and culture.

1. You think you are anointed to win football games. It makes you think your coaching choices will be, too.

2. Most of the decision makers are priests, priests tend to think they are experts on everything. OK not all of them, but enough of them. They get to be the only valid interpreters of things religious, and they start throwing their weight around with other things, too. It's kind of a spiritual arrogance. It causes you to fall in love with your choices too soon if there is a little success. Then you blow the money we gave you on a ten year contract for Charlie.

3. "Waking up the echoes" is a cultural liability now. God doesn't care about football, but we act as if He does. It's a secular game run by secular people. Compete as if God didn't care about football and you'll do much better. Translation: God isn't putting us through a "Jonah" period inside the whale. Notre Dame did it to itself. God is not going to pull us out of this so we can win a few football games. You need to wake up your own head and compete based on....

....TODAY"S REALITIES, not past "ECHOES"

Does 17 years of no bowl game wins speak loud enough?

Does a near 2nd loss to Navy and a loss to lowly Syracuse speak loud enough?

The pattern of the last three coaches is like the performance of the stock market lately. It is that of a drowning man. He gets a burst of spirit and energy and lifts himself up for a time, but without anything else to keep him afloat, he eventually succumbs to the water and drowns. The stock market in the last few months has bobbed up and down... with a trend line that is unmistakably down. So has Notre Dame. We have a coaching change, spirits go up, and the players over-perform. Once in a while you get lucky and land a great throwback Catholic boy like Brady and Jeff. Those opportunities are fewer and farther between.

Notre Dame needs a new strategy that is IN the world. Not on an island.

I'll leave it up to the rest of you to fill in the details.

11/23/2008 11:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Think for one second...Who would want the job at ND. For all intents and purposes ND has been dead since the dreadful kick that BD delivered to us 15 years ago. The program is now on the same level as a Pitt or Louisville. Remember the last time we had gone through a search for a football coach, no one was begging for this job. It was the opposite; we had to settle for a no-name who was part of a great system.

ND has brought all of this upon themselves by the TV contracts and other egocentric yet egregious moves. This is why they won’t do anything to Weis. They will not pay the huge check that the Trustees and Kevin White crafted prematurely.

If there is an ideal candidate it would be Brian Kelley of UC. But he has told many folks that Notre Dame job would be a huge step down compared to the Tennessee job. The readers of NDNation have to realize that Notre Dame has one of the worst reputations in the coaching world.

Also, the way ND treats the ex-players is pathetic at best. There is a reason that almost 90% of the past football players never return to campus. It is because the feeling of betrayal. While you are student there, you are treated as a necessary evil of campus and upon graduation like a money pit. An example of this would be the fact that ex-football players are forced to pay $300 a year for Monogram dues that gives you the chance to buy tickets. It is incredible that ND would do that to the same individuals who sacrificed their bodies for the school to reap in millions a years. And, there is no guarantee that you will get the tickets. In essence an All-American football player is competing against a women field hockey player!!!I will wager there is no Top 20 program with the same policy.

Bye bye ND football

11/23/2008 11:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Jim Kress said...

The Weis era has had a very Faustian feel to it.

Gerry Faust was a great high school coach, knew how to get the most out of kids (I mean that literally) and win at that level.

However, when he came to ND he was not capable of transforming himself into a college coach where he had to take kids of varying talent and make them players.

He was a great recruiter and a solid representative of the University. He just didn't know how to coach at the highest level of college football.

Charlie Weis was a great NFL Offensive Coordinator, knew how to get the most out of college trained men (I mean that literally) and win at that level.

However, since he has been at ND he has not been able to transform himself into a college coach where he can take kids of varying talent, mold them into a unified team and make them players.

He is a great recruiter and a solid representative of the University. He just doesn't know how to coach at the highest level of college football.

IMHO Weis deserves one more year to get one more (probably highly rated) recruting class into the University. However, if he fails with that three year combination of talent, he needs to help the AD find his best possible replcement and then step down for the good of the University.

At least that way, he'll leave the larder well stocked for the next coach.

He might even stay on in some capacity (as did Faust) to aid in recruiting or other areas. But no BCS BOWl in 2009 means no Weis in 2010.

BTW, what the hell has happened to Clausen? His performance has consistently deteriorated over the entire season. Could it be the Powlus effect?

11/23/2008 11:56:00 AM  
Anonymous jabbadoody5 said...

TheIrishHammer, legendary for his predictions, has seen the future once more and has provided his insight regarding the future of Weis....just as he did at the end of the Willingham era.

If memory serves, he was banned his prediction. Nobody believed him at the time. Within two weeks, Willingham was gone.

11/23/2008 12:04:00 PM  
Anonymous NDalum'71 said...

Hey Kuch; that's not Charlie's fault nor primary concern!One thing Charlie is, is a deeply loyal and hard-working ND alum and one can add unselfish. While his faults and failings are addressed, so should be his strong suits and meaningful accomplishments; we can't lose the momentum created in recruiting. (NDwuj above makes some sense)
Don't throw the baby out....especially in disgrace and because of any competitive agendas other than being competitive and ultimately "winning".

11/23/2008 12:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

See here's the thing. When he was hired many of us wondered about getting a guy -- good heart and all -- who had NEVER been a head coach at the pro of college level. As was said about Bob Davie: Is this a place where you start. Also, this was another AD's hire, so the current one need not worry about this guy, but more about his replacement. The former AD hired a guy with a falsified resume then, when he knew he was leaving, gave this guy a wonderful anchor of a contract for the next guy to pay for.

11/23/2008 12:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why was so little attention paid to the irony of Adrian Dantley's son beating us yesterday. If we are so respectful of traditions this should be compelling story. Rusty Lisch's son is a star basketball player at St.Louis. How come he doesn't play for us. We have clearly lost our way. Charlie can't even run a classy summer camp.He should resing right now and the new AD should dump him if he doesn't. Dr.D'77

11/23/2008 12:21:00 PM  
Blogger NJIrish said...

A sad day for The Irish. The administration has nearly given away the football franchise in 15 years. We simply must be able to run the ball; identify what we need to do to improve the run game dramatically - and do it. Let's show we belong on the field with USC next week and, then, tell Coach Weis we are expecting 20 wins over the next two years. ND should not discard its own; it already does enough of this in its admissions policy.

11/23/2008 12:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fellow ND fans, we do not need a big name coach ( Saban, Stoops, Meyer) to lead us back to the promise land of college football. We need a coach who can teach our athletes to win! We have no identity on offense, no identity on defense, except we want to blitz all the time. We have a weak coaching staff and a head coach that does not have enough expereince to lead this program. Mike Brey was not a big name head coach, but he ahd experience. Paul Manieri was not a big name till he won at Notre Dame, we need a teacher, and someone who understands the college game.

11/23/2008 12:39:00 PM  
Anonymous NDalum'71 said...

Yo Murf, see my posts above and comment

11/23/2008 12:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lets not lose sight of the goal. We want to win and we want to win like ND of old. ND has been the best thing for college football forever. Lets face it you are either for them or against them. There is no in between with the Irish. With that said - Charlie has out recruited everyone the past three years. He loves ND and can sell the college with heart and respect to everyone. Problem: is he has not won when he needed to. I believe CW is a good offensive coordinator at some level. As a head coach, this may not be his strength and on this staff there seems to be no one who balances his business approach. To be honest isn't this were the AD comes into play? Isn't he the coach's coach. Doesn't he evaluate the coach and staff? Shouldn't he along with head coach seek to improve what we have not just cut and past something new?

I truly hate to see the coaching carousel begin again at ND. We will get someone who will do a great job for two years then go through a transition of athletes fall to the depths of misery and then we will be after the new head coach. Let's fix the system. Find Charles's missing link - the motivator above all motivators - a Lou - let Charlie recruit, - show off those Super Bowl rings - impress the NFL as Charlie's word on players, run the offense with an offensive staff, and not have the pressure of being the man. Let that fall on the someone else. I'm not saying fire him - I'm saying give him a job he can do and fix the problems. We need a CEO who can motivate a staff, coordinate egos, and utilize the best people in the best positions not destroy the positives and start from scratch again. We can not afford to do this every 3 - 5 years. Check the patterns in college football - name ten successful D-1 programs who have not had a coaching change in 10 years. Now tell me, did they want to fire those coaches two or three times? Did these coaches have to learn how to be successful? So does Charlie - I think he could be a successful coach at ND if under someone at the college for a few years and then come back. Maybe this way we don't lose the athletes, the fans, the games,and in the end we ND wins too.

11/23/2008 01:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The football program at Notre Dame is already dead. It suffered from inept leadership, lack of a ground game, zero arial assault, special teams that have been more like special olympics, a defense that was supposed to get nasty but instead got worse and yes, a lack luster fan base.
To terminate Charlie Weis's association with the University at this point wouldn't do anymore damage than that which has already been done.
It's time for a new beginning. My suggestion: for the USC game, sit Clausen down, bypass Sharpley, and give the Montana kid a shot. The worst that could happen is we lose anyway. If he pulls it off think it, instant legendary status and fan will be chomping at the bit for next season to get here.

11/23/2008 01:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Time to hit the reset button again(see ya later charlie)... And who else would like to see Dayne Crist get a FAIR chance to beat out JC in the off-season?? I know the lack of offense is not all Clausen's fault but I think we need be fair here. Crist is a blue chip recruit and our offense is not where it needs to be.

11/23/2008 01:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stop it with the platitudes on Charlie Weis. He is a big fat arrogant foul mouthed slob, period. He did not and does not represent ND well at all. His first season contract maneuvers were to fill his belly and rape ND of money. He is a disgusting bad man that needs to go, ND grad or not.

11/23/2008 01:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look at Bob Stoops. He grew up in the Ohio Catholic school system, offer him the chance to rebuild to the true ND football history.

11/23/2008 01:19:00 PM  
Blogger Doylend24 said...

I know that the loss on Saturday hurt not only for the players but the fans as well. Yet, CW still needs to see if the talent he has not only has the ability to win but believes that they can win. You are not going to find a lot of coaches knocking on the door at ND. presser and expectation make it hard to get the right fit. I would be the first to say let CW go but I know we need time (2-years at the most) to see what he can really do....the USC game will be ugly.

11/23/2008 01:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why don't we hire the Syracuse coach? I hear he needs a job and, unlike Weis, he sure motivated his players yesterday! Weis is an arrogant prick. And there is nothing worse than being arrogant when you don't have anything to be arrogant about!

11/23/2008 01:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie Weis was a great NFL Offensive Coordinator, knew how to get the most out of college trained men (I mean that literally) and win at that level.

Right, just like the guy that replaced Charlie at NE knew how to get the most out of college trained men, he literally didn't miss a beat without Charlie's guidance.

11/23/2008 01:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When ND first hired Weis I thought he would turn out to be a diamond in the rough. Who cared that he wasn't a head coach, anywhere; he was a super bowl winning offensive coordinator who molded Tom Brady into a hall of fame QB. Fast forward to the present. Yeah we looked pretty darn good in 2005, but when 2006 rolled along you could start smelling that something may be amiss. Then there was 2007, enough said. And as for 2008, well if you think three more wins than last year is progress than you aren’t a real Fighting Irish fan! I have suffered for the past too many years to watch our beloved Notre Dame sink below mediocrity again. Charlie will make a fine professional coach, but it’s time to break ties with the NFL experiment. If Coach Weis is as intelligent as he’s made out to be and if he truly loves his alma mater he will leave on his own for not only the betterment of the ND Football program, but his stock as a football coach/coordinator as well.

11/23/2008 01:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's a game, and no one here calling publicly for Coach Weis' firing is helping the cause. If you have a beef, write directly to Jack Swarbrick or Father Jenkins. While you're at it, tell them how much time you've spent in an official capacity representing Notre Dame and why you're doing such a good job of it now. You should be embarrassed. If you want to ruin recruiting or kick our coaches or players while they're down, keep it up. You're behaving like spoiled children and in a very un-Christian like way.

Anyone who has represented Notre Dame in athletics knows that you get everyone else's best shot. If you don't prepare yourself to perform your best, and if you don't try your hardest at all times, you will lose. Raw talent may prevail from time to time and "win" on the scoreboard, but by failing to prepare and failing to try your best, you will have let your team down, and yourself. That's my definition of a loser.

Experience is vital. How often do you see the young hotshot defeated by the more experienced but less talented athlete who wanted it more? That passion comes from within; coaches may fan its flames a few times per season, but it's up to the individual players, with help from their leaders, to keep the fires stoked.

We've all seen people (not just athletes) waste their talent and try to get by on talent alone. We've also seen others realize that talent alone was not enough, and they learned that talent combined with hard work and passion would give them the opportunity to be champions. Only time will tell whether champions will emerge from this team.

As you may have guessed if you've read this far, I've never been a talented athlete, but I did win a few monograms at ND. I've also been privileged to have served on the Monogram Club's Board of Directors. None of us like watching any of our teams lose. Some of us aren't very judicious, and may criticize our coaches or players publicly. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but there are better ways to make a point than throwing it out there for everyone to see. Send e-mails to those you know instead.

I've enjoyed following ndnation for several years, but this is the first time I've felt compelled to post. Maybe I've become too fed up with the media trying to shape public opinion, as opposed to reporting it. If you feel compelled to voice your opinion publicly, please post responsibly, and try to consider how someone interested in Notre Dame would view Notre Dame if yours is the only comment that is posted.

11/23/2008 01:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would be the first to say let CW go but I know we need time (2-years at the most) to see what he can really do....the USC game will be ugly.

So we need six years to see if a coach can cut it. Wow. Oh, I guess seeing how young this team will be in 2010, and how bare Ty left the cupboards, and how bad the OC is, and how the refs are out to get us, yeah, maybe we should give him to the end of his contract.

11/23/2008 01:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you feel compelled to voice your opinion publicly, please post responsibly, and try to consider how someone interested in Notre Dame would view Notre Dame if yours is the only comment that is posted.

Sorry, I thought this was a public forum, not another Spin Zone for Charlie. I guess me and the rest of the posters will just take our stats and figures and let you guys keep running our beloved program in the ground. But hey, at least you'll have you're piety to make you sleep well at night.

11/23/2008 02:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Raw talent may prevail from time to time and "win" on the scoreboard, but by failing to prepare and failing to try your best, you will have let your team down, and yourself. That's my definition of a loser.

It's getting good when the Monogram Club's Board of Directors just called our entire team losers.

Nice, way to represent the univeristy.

11/23/2008 02:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You people are nuts. I was in the student section during that loss to Syracuse, and you will find no greater disgruntled fans anywhere else, yet I still think that Charlie deserves another year to prove himself a winner. Why did Urban Meyer pass on the job? Because it would take too long to win. Why did we hire Charlie? Because he's building something to last. If only a handful of plays had gone the right way this season, UNC, Pitt, and Syracuse would be in the win column. Give me a freaking break and let Charlie continue to recruit and right this program.

11/23/2008 02:04:00 PM  
Anonymous that one guy said...

kevin wilson, offensive coordinator at ou. no brainer. he has recuited this area and the type of student athlete nd requires because he did so at northwestern. he has studied under bob stoops, one of the great coaches of this era. kevin wilson is ready and would be a tremendous coach. nd would be a huge opportunity for him and he would be excellent.

11/23/2008 02:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It looks like some members of this public forum could use a remedial reading course. With rights and privileges come certain responsibilities, and I only suggest that each of us consider how the team, its coaches, and recruits would feel about ND after reading our comments.

1. I said nothing about my views on Coach Weis, nor do I feel compelled to share them on this board.

2. I did not call the team or anyone else a loser. If you feel that the team falls within my definition, that is your conclusion.

11/23/2008 02:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 11/23/2008 02:16:00 PM,

Screw you! We all love ND. It's still the most popular school with the best following in all college football. If last season's reup with NBC after the worst debacle season in our history didn't show that to a moron like you, then nothing will. We will be back, just not with big chucky on the sidelines that's all

11/23/2008 02:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then why the heck post you loser....go back to being the hall monitor somewhere else..... we're venting here and telling it like it is.

11/23/2008 02:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"With rights and privileges come certain responsibilities,"

Wow, sounds like it's right out of the Spider-Man movie.

Are you Uncle Ben? But wait, he's dead, then that makes you a ...

11/23/2008 02:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I HAVE THE SOLUTION!!!

- Let's arrest ND alums for drinking before the games, throw them in jail, humiliate them, issue them no trespass letters on ND property, then make them beg and donate money to get it rescinded. Yeah, that'll help. Fire Bill Kirk Now!

www.therealnotredame.com

P.S. Oh, and be sure to charge former football players the $300 to participate in the football ticket lottery too.... No wonder 90% never return to campus.

11/23/2008 02:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then why the heck post you loser....go back to being the hall monitor somewhere else..... we're venting here and telling it like it is.

I second that.

11/23/2008 02:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You're behaving like spoiled children and in a very un-Christian like way. "

Are you inferring that only Chrisitans can like Notre Dame football?

Wow, another example of why the rest of the world hates Notre Dame.
I guess I would only suggest that each of us consider how the team, its coaches, and recruits would feel about ND after reading our comments.

11/23/2008 02:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with the earlier poster that I've never thought Weis was a good rep for the university. He's arrogant and dismissive of people who question him.

11/23/2008 02:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie Weis - Embarrassment Defined : 1) Claiming to be able to "outsmart" all other coaches before ever posting a winning season, 2) being featured on CBS's 60 Minutes as one of the most foul mouthed coaches every to walk any sideline and joking about it, 3) blackmailing Notre Dame into a long-term contract by using the New Orleans Saints as a bluff, 4) gaining a long-term deal on the back of Willingham athletes and then the next year saying he is unable to win because of the same athletes, 5) more scholarship players lost to transfer in 2 years than Holtz lost in 10, 5)blaming assistants, players and everone else but himself for consistent dismal team performance, 6) 2007 Record 3-9, 7) 2008 Record ( still tbd awaiting a blowout by USC) unacceptable since the opponents were soft at best - any decent coach should have had 9+ wins just by showing up, 8) losing to Syracuse 11/22/08.

Faust was fired before the last game vs Miami. At least during his tenure at Notre Dame he represented the University as a good man, with integrity and respect. Do us all ( alumni and other fans ) a favor, end this now, FIRE HIM THIS WEEK. Then at least we can all get some consolation as USC destroys teh Irish this weekend.

11/23/2008 02:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, what a sham! You call yourselves ND fans. Yet you're sounding like every other fan out there who thinks their program deserves to win a National Championship. I'm not gonna crunch numbers or do other comparisons that just make us look ordinary. Most of the experts said that ND would go 7-5. 6-6 and that this team was young and needed time to grow. Yet because they showed early signs of success this season you'all are ready to jump ship. I want to see Championships at ND too, but I'd rather build a champion than buy one. It's like a cat chasing his tail. Charlie is the right man for the job and he will turn this program around. That is, if you whiny snowballers will give him the chance.

11/23/2008 03:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ND has great talent(Golden Tate, Michael Floyd) so do not blame the loss on them. Something Charlie's doing just doesn't seem to be working.

11/23/2008 03:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, Give Charlie a chance. It's time all us Charlie supporters band together in unity for the man who will lead us back to the glory days. Mark 2010 as the year the Notre Dame wins the National Championship with Charlie at the helm and Clausen at the QB position.

11/23/2008 03:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, Riddle me this Batman

Everyone says were are young, but the O-line (where we struggle the most) is made of Jrs. and Srs. (ok, and one freshman). So, the place we are hurting is not young. The other positions are doing well, in addition to being young. We are not struggling because we are young.

11/23/2008 03:25:00 PM  
Blogger jim / Redondo Beach said...

...I am in shock...nothing makes sense...

11/23/2008 03:33:00 PM  
Blogger Lucky said...

Weis has made it abundtly clear the past two years that he is not a good college football coach. As others have stated, good head football coaches at the college level need to develop talent. Weis and his staff have proven they cannot.

That being said, I would expect Weis to be gone after the USC game. Hopefully he steps aside, but if not, I believe Swarbrick will force Weis to resign.

Looking ahead to potential candidates, I think there are two coaches who could step in and immediately win with the talent on this team.

Gary Patterson at TCU and Brian Kelly at Cincinnati. Both coaches have a wealth of experience and success at the college level. They win consistently with less talent on their teams than ND has right now. Both are at schools small enough where a National Championship will not materialize. However, they have shown that they can run good programs year after year with less talent than they will inherit at Notre Dame. These two guys would surely welcome the challenge of moving to one of the highest profile coaching jobs in all of sports and proving themselves (not to mention improving their salaries a great deal).

Do not worry about losing recruits. There are plenty of good recruiters out there. Do not worry about players defecting or transferring. Winning games keeps players coming. The best way to keep blue chip recruiting classes coming to South Bend is by winning games and consistently competing for National Championships.

Weis is not the guy. However, Patterson and Kelly are two men I feel would have immediate success with Weis' players. Let one of them bring their winning ways to ND and turn these players' untapped potential into on the field success.

GO IRISH!

11/23/2008 03:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alright, how many posters on this board go to work and know that if they get fired, they will get the same amount of money for the next 7 years than if they stayed at work for the next 7 years? Not a lot of us on here with that problem. Hmmmm, lets see what Charlie says

For the most part, Weis declined to talk about what the loss means for his future, saying he needed more time before commenting. But he said he is not worried.

“Fortunately or unfortunately, whichever way you look at it, that’s just my makeup,” he said.

Yeah, I wouldn't be worried about being fired, if I make the same amount as if I stayed on.

Must be nice.

11/23/2008 03:42:00 PM  
Blogger NDalum04 said...

Okay, got it. About 90% of the posters here are calling for CW's head; check. I'm still interested in who you all think should take over the head coaching position. One of the great things about this great country is our freedom of speech so whine, gripe, complain, and bash to your heart's content. However I think it's a more interesting discussion if some suggestions are provided by those calling for Weis to step down.

So far I've heard Brian Kelly, who has expressed his lack of interest in the job already, and the offensive coordinator for OU. Given the success that many of Bob Stoops' previous assistants have had (Mike Leach for example) that is an interesting suggestion with potential.

What about Chris Petersen at Boise State? He's built the beginnings of a pretty successful dynasty out in the WAC.

Any other successful head coaches looking for a change?

11/23/2008 03:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Being a winner makes up for a lot of character flaws....being a loser only highlights them. Yes, Weis is a fat arrogant slob....it is so obvious now.

11/23/2008 03:47:00 PM  
Blogger jim / Redondo Beach said...

..."Irish receiver David Grimes had a memorable Senior Day with a career-high 83 yards on seven receptions.."...

...he also got flagged for holding on the long reception by our tight end...that stopped that drive immediately...

11/23/2008 03:53:00 PM  
Blogger Mike Coffey said...

Since when has Brian Kelly expressed a lack of interest in the job? Word on the street is quite the opposite.

11/23/2008 03:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since when has Brian Kelly expressed a lack of interest in the job? Word on the street is quite the opposite.

Link?

11/23/2008 03:54:00 PM  
Blogger Mike Coffey said...

Things he says to people he knows usually aren't linked on the Internet anywhere.

11/23/2008 03:55:00 PM  
Blogger jim / Redondo Beach said...

...I just saw where Clausen had 291 yards and no interceptions...HOW?...with this offensive line and no running game could he put up those kind of numbers...he is truly special...no matter what the finaal score...

11/23/2008 03:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am depressed and confused. I really thought CW was it. Maybe there is something karmic to all this. With the whole wishing TY ill will and relishing in his demise and the snooty arrogant attitude towards other teams when ND has consistently sucked for 15 years. Maybe its time to retire the trash talking of other teams and be a little bit more introspective. Before we call for CW's head I would like hear a plan that will ensure that we get a top flight coach and keep our recruits. Is there no middle ground whereby we can get some experienced assistant coaches that can coach fundamentals, without making the team go through the instability that comes with firing a head coach. For someone who does not understand Xs and Os I would like to understand why our highly recruited offensive line consistently allows any teams d line into our backfield on running plays.

11/23/2008 04:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe its time to retire the trash talking of other teams and be a little bit more introspective. Before we call for CW's head I would like hear a plan that will ensure that we get a top flight coach and keep our recruits.

I find it incredibly ironic you talk about a little introspective and then demand to see the plan that give you a top flight coach and keep recruits.

You guys are so intertwined in the notion that ND deserves better than all thos other laic teams, you can't even recognize that you are.

I think maybe Charlie is the right guy.

Good Luck.

11/23/2008 04:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice, so you're in the know. Rumors, all it is, rumors.

Things he says to people he knows usually aren't linked on the Internet anywhere.

11/23/2008 04:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Folks, Bob Stoops is not leaving Norman. I agree he would be a great choice but it is not going to happen. He is everything Weis is not. Down to earth and visible in the community. His brother Mike, however, might be swayed to leave Arizona.

11/23/2008 04:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unacceptable. Charlie continues to break records for failing miserably. Who can replace him? I dont know, but after next Sat. we may find out.

11/23/2008 04:25:00 PM  
Blogger Regular Guy said...

Firing Weis now would just add stupidity to misery. Like many posters here have said, who's going to replace him? If he's such a terrible coach, why did he have two good seasons his first two years? He was a "genius" when we were beating the hell out of Penn State two years ago. What happened -- did he suddenly go senile when Brady Quinn left? Change just 3 plays this season and we're 9-2 and the USC game has BCS implications and Weis is the second coming of Rockne. This is probably the unluckiest team in ND history. (We're being punished for some reason. I don't know -- maybe it has to do with Mass attendance or expanding the stadium.) The best thing is just to hold tight and enjoy next year -- with Charlie Weis, a great Notre Dame man.

11/23/2008 04:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After 17 years as a season ticket holder I WILL NOT renew my tickets next year. I am done. I cannot remember the last time I have seen those players at that University have fire and passion for the game of football. Not since Lou Holtz. I am glad my dad is not alive to see what has happened to our beloved and storied program at Notre Dame!

11/23/2008 05:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fire him for who?? With all these other head coaching positions opening do you really think we'll get someone better? We won't. Weis deserves one more season and here is why.
His best players are Freshmen and Sophmores. Clausen, as quarterback, is the team leader and is only a sophmore. Honestly, do you think the juniors, seniors, and 5th year guys don't have a chip on their shoulders because the younger guys are better players??? Do you not think this negatively effects the team??? Clausen will be a Junior next year and as such will have the "horsepower" "time in grade" or whatever you want to call it to be the leader.
Additionally, we were friggin 3-9 last year, did we really think all of a sudden we were going to be 9-3 like that!?!?!?!
Weis needs one more year to do this. However, we need to fire Latina and Haywood now!

11/23/2008 05:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love Notre Dame but lets face it we will never recapture the success of the past. We cannot compete with programs that are:
Easier in the classroom
Offer better weather
offer a better social life
Leverage the red shirt program to their benefit.

The coaches know this as do the top recruits. What makes us beleive we can get a top notch coach?

11/23/2008 05:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm a Michigan alum, and we are going through our worst experience in team history as well, as you know.

Most of the comments posted here seem to be suggesting that ND should do the same thing M did: hire a head coach with successful head coaching experience.

Since you won't get Pete Carrol or Urban Meyer and wouldn't want Nick Saban, you probably aren't going to do any better than the M hire.

Point being, hiring any coach is going to involve another massive gamble. We have no idea whether Rodriguez is going to work at M, and you have no idea if anyone else is going to work at ND, with the possible exception of Holtz.

And you can't fault the ND administration for the CW hire. I know for a fact the M coaches were afraid of him when he came in -- they truly thought they were going to be outcoached. Their fears proved unfounded over time, but it always takes time to tell.

ND simply has to roll the dice again. The next time it might work out.

Might not.

11/23/2008 05:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know I know Charlie isnt looking like the brand new caddy we bought but more like a used pontiac....I cant belive how we have arrived to this point.Some of you guys may be right on calling for his head, but we have way to much to lose here.
Lets not forget about the classes he has pulled in the last 2 years if not anything he is a proven recruiter and should be givin one more shot to right his ship.
what we need is a strong oc to fire up this squad...what about mora jr.? idk just a thought.
I am and always will be a true ND fan and supporter and wish Big C DUB all the luck and to keep his head up and on his shoulders. This team deserves more and will get it SOON! GO IRISH!!!!!!! BEAT S.C

11/23/2008 05:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weis doesn't understand that in college, practice time needs to be used for both learning the game and conditioning. In the pros, you just learn the scheme in practice and spend the rest of your time on physical conditioning. In college and especially at ND, a lot of that other time is spent going to class and studying. From every practice vid I have watched in the last 4 years, there is entirely too much standing around. Our team doesn't show up for the second half because they're out of gas. Contrast that to Michigan's practices where everything is on the fly. Mark my words, if Weis is still here next year, Michigan is going to embarass us right out of the gate. You all know it's true.

11/23/2008 06:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fire the fat man and hire someone who knows the game and has played the game. Please bring in Tom Clements he knows the game played the game and won a national championship at ND.

11/23/2008 06:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Zap said...

I've been saying for two years Charlie's not the guy. He's a good guy but so was Faust. There's no fire in the gut. If Lou won't come back, go after Pete Carroll. Like him or not he's a winner, he's creative and he's dynamic. The chance to coach at ND whispers in all these guys' ears. He'd jump at the chance.

11/23/2008 06:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Never in my short 18 year life have I ever been so emberassed to be an ND fan. I knew from the moment they hired that fat digusting of a slob coach i wouldn't pan out. He can't motivate nor coach. A good coach can have crappy players and still win. He has some of the best and still sucks. I'm heading to ball state next fall and if he's still the coach I'm not coming back for one single game

11/23/2008 06:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see Charlie, looking slovenly in sweats, next to dapper coaches like Carroll ... what in the world?

To the poster who said he/she has been on the Monogram board and thereby uses its authority to chastise others -- if you are eager to use your "position" to admonish, why are you posting as anonymous? Why not use your name?

ND lost to Syracuse! Not Georgia Tech or Arizona State even, but Syracuse which had been blown away by powerhouses like Connecticut and Akron. S Y R A C U S E . Google Syrcuse ESPN and it comes up with their basketball page. What football team? If ND had won 24-23 it would have been embarrassing. Narrow win over Navy? Zowie. We are talking Navy for crying out loud. How low can your expectations go? These are not teams that were even mediocre Pac 10, Big 10, SEC equivalents. My family is half ND grads (and a professor) and half USC grads -- guess which half wants Charlie to stay? For a loooooooong time!

11/23/2008 06:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unless you tell me who they are going to hire in Charlie's place, stop talking. ND must have a better coach in hand before risknig losing the talent level Weis has built so far. I,m not saying Charlie is the long term answer but who is?

11/23/2008 06:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

nd needs to run why pick on clausen let me see what qb would excel with our running game. also don't blame cw for everything it's time for the players to start acting like men.we expect our men in service to act like men while in harms way but these players of the same age need to be treated like babies to be motivated.

11/23/2008 06:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We should get BC's coach. His last QB is an NFL phenom, and he turns 2-star deffensive linemen into beasts.

11/23/2008 07:02:00 PM  
Blogger Bob and Karen said...

Hey, Greg Robinson's available. He's good at beating over inflated teams!

Look, misery loves company, particularly when your misery is deeper.

As Don Imus says "We're not happy until you're not happy"

SU fan with something sleep on>

11/23/2008 07:25:00 PM  
Blogger DauntlessDave said...

It may be time. It's not going to happen for another year, however.

Charlie is our coach and that is not likely to change at this time.

For his own sake, I'll hope that the turnaround starts next week.

I'm thinking it will also shut up the irrational thoughts of those who are claiming a bigger name will come it. It's not going to happen.

Bunker down and root for Charlie. He's one of us. ND will get no favor from the media, nor the haters and though that's not reason to stand behind him, it adds to the picture.

11/23/2008 08:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

college athletes need motivation because they are but our uniformed soilders are suppose to act like men cw treats them like men because that's what they are iguess 20 is the new 10

11/23/2008 08:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm very, very confident ND will win next year WITH Charlie Weis as its head coach. It may be apples and oranges, but there wasn't a Giants fan alive who wanted Coughlin to return as head coach in 2007. One Super Bowl, and perhaps a successful defense, later and the Tisch Brothers look like patient geniuses. Swarbrick will be likely applauded for his patience and long-view.

11/23/2008 08:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weis is completely out of his element. Before he leaves, he will be the worst coach in the history of the program. Clausen is the wrong guy at QB. With a suspect O line, you can't win games without a QB that can run on crucial downs. Opposing linebackers just drop back into pass coverage and ignore the QB option. Give Crist a chance!

11/23/2008 08:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HIRE BRIAN KELLY! I am a huge ND fan in Michigan just down the road from Grand Valley State University. That is where I first watched Brian Kelly coach. Division 2 yes, but look at Tressel from youngstown to OSU. Kelly turned around a Central Michigan program that was terrible. what he is doing with cincy now with less talent than ND's 2nd team is being noticed by everyone. The good thing is if we can't get a big name now, we could always back our way into a Skip Holtz hire that might be the best hire since his father.

11/23/2008 08:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seriously, you fans need to have some patience. 95% of what Charlie is doing is right on. Because of that and because there will be no other takers for this job and because it will be 10s of millions to do what you all suggest, Charlie needs to stay. The guy is a proven game caller, he is a proven winner, he is a proven recruiter and he has proven that he can graduate his players with high grades. The one thing that has ALWAYS been a problem with his teams has been the offensive line. It has never been good nor has it ever been experienced. Dan Wenger looked completely out of his element yesterday and the guy has the ability to be pro someday. Because of this, Weis needs to fire Latina and get a very proven offensive line coach to take over and teach the offense that Weis wants to run. That is your answer. Firing Weis is not.

11/23/2008 08:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Like it or lump, I believe we have to stick with Charlie for at least another season. If he can't get the program operating on all cyclinders, then I would hope he would be manly enough to resign. I don't think that ND can afford to sack another coach.

11/23/2008 08:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Worst O-line coaching ever, Terrible d-line play, predictible play calling, sad play action, embarrasing running game, kicking game? How many more kicker scholarships do we need to give out to put one in the end zone? Is this the same jimmy I watched in high school? please keep him away from Ron Powlus. Still waiting for sam young to dominate, why can't we put pressure on the quarterback with the blitz? How about the front three? Will Justin Brown please graduate already? Does anyone else notice the lack of motion on offense? or the lack of emotion on this whole team? These kids play to not loose or not screw up. The new coach must teach these kids to play to win and expect to win. Please hire Brian Kelly already.

11/23/2008 08:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Notre Dame has never been able to handle coaching transitions since Rockne. Anderson? Fired. Layden? Declined one-year contract renewal. Leahy? Forced out. Brennan? Fired. Kuharich? Retired to become officials coordinator with the NFL. Later hired as head coach of Philadelphia Eagles by owner Leonard Toth, an ND grad. Parseghian? Denied leave of absence due to health. Retired. Devine? Resigned after six years despite 53-16-1 record. Faust? Contract not renewed. Holtz? Resigned under duress despite 100-30-2 record. Davie? Fired. Willingham? Fired.

11/23/2008 08:53:00 PM  
Blogger Terry Hutton said...

A recent poster said that if 3 plays had been different we could be 9-2. The way I see it if 2 plays were different we could be 4-7. How about Randy Edsall at UCONN? He seems to fit what we need. Google him and be impressed.

11/23/2008 08:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all the posters... I too have been an avid supporter of Charlie and his tough guy act..but folks..what we have here is a failure to communicate.

This guy has been an absolute disaster from the beginning.

Lets face it, be real..be honest and now lets do something about it.

Just look at his staff and his transfer rate..and more than anything...HIS WINS..and his lack of improvement in his players...

This is it..I've had it...

No more excuses...

Lets fire him and his son...that's a friggin joke..he's made a mockery of my beloved irish...

Please...before he ruins this program beyond help....

Open up the wallets and get

1. Bob Stoops
2. Chucky
3. Urban
4. Brian Kelly
5. Skip and Lou (co coaches)
6. Kyle Whittingham
7. Chris Pederson
8. Mike Billotti
9. Mike Riley
10. Off. Cord at Oklahoma

THATS IT...JUST GO OUT AND GET ONE..I DONT CARE HOW YOU DO IT..JUST DO IT.

oh..and ANGRY EAGLE..just name the time and the place my friend...

:D

IRISH LADD '95

11/23/2008 09:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If we are going to fire coaches like every other school, then we should hire like every other school. Get a guy who has been successful every place he went as a head coach, and hire him. See Ohio State, Michigan State, etc.

11/23/2008 09:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Saturday's horrible loss and terrible student behavior is national news. Yahoo's home page on Sunday evening had it's lead story on the ND loss and snowball incident. What to flight recruit would want to come to a school where the students throw snowballs at the players during a game. ND football is spiraling downward like a crashing airplane!

11/23/2008 09:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One could argue that the first 3 years of the Weis regime were simply damage control for how Willingham left the program. One could argue that this was really his first "true" season. One could argue that we are a lot like USC was in 2001 - a ton of young talent, yet still 6-6. One could argue....

11/23/2008 09:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting: Urban?

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20081120/COLUMNISTS0306/811200343/1065/SPORTS

11/23/2008 09:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, I'll trade you for Rich Rodriguez and his band of clowns.

11/23/2008 09:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about Turner Gill at buffalo. A winner when he played at a major college and turned buffalo into a winner. BUFFALO. Upstanding guy also. Feel bad for chuck but he is trying to learn on the job and is failing terribly. Needs to go now.

11/23/2008 10:30:00 PM  
Blogger K Garner said...

I'm sorry folks, but I'm yet to hear anyone propose that ND can make the necessary payout to get Charlie out the door. I think he's going to be around next year unless we get some TARP money from Paulson.

11/23/2008 11:22:00 PM  
Blogger Mike Coffey said...

What leads you to believe they couldn't make said payout?

11/23/2008 11:25:00 PM  
OpenID newjersey852369 said...

I'm a ND fan and the whole Weis era has shocked me. He came from a coaching hall of fame, so how can he surround himself with bad assistants? Pete Carroll and USC will want to humiliate ND next week. USC will ring up 60 points.

11/23/2008 11:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

why don't we just forfeit game to usc so we don't embarrass all you quitters. you say the team has no heart and cw is arrogant they seem to be the perfect image of nd alums and students.real nd fan psu85.usc did'nt win yet

11/23/2008 11:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie, please just go. You're a great guy, you love Notre Dame, do the right thing. Even if in your mind you work out that you could improve next year or the next three years, the confidence, the joy, the relationship that you said was the guts of the matter is dead. This is nasty, but not the way your promised. This is your big chance to really be a hero. Wave the contract and walk away.

11/24/2008 12:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How does anyone think that Charlie is doing the right things? The only thing he does well is recruit, but if you put together shoddy game performances with blue chips it is now better than shoddy performances with mediocre talent. The teams are not prepared, and honestly, his teams have never been all that prepared. He loaded up on easy wins his first two seasons and now can't even do that. His plays are predictable and there is just no way that, with the talent ND has, that we should lose to a team like Syracuse. There is simply no excuse for it. Chris Petersen at Boise State would be a good choice. He can clearly coach and would win with the talent we already have. Chances are we won't change coaches and will yet again endure a mediocre season next year and will have to listen to people say "wait till next season." I'm a Cubs fan, I can't handle waiting forever for more than one team.

11/24/2008 12:22:00 AM  
Blogger Mike Coffey said...

I believe I've read that Chris Petersen is a Scientologist.

11/24/2008 12:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a'72 grad, I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly, this has now gone beyond ugly. The Navy game was so disappointing I didn't think that it could get worse, after all "The Orange" but it got worse alot worse. The only person on that field that looked more confused than Clausen was Weis. We all know how much SI "love" the Irish but the article on the Navy game by Mark Beech was right on target.
And what does the immediate future hold? A thrashing by a good but certainly not great USC team. Charlie limping up and down the sidelines looking in pain and bewildered as we have negative rushing yardage and a totally unimaginitive game plan. Going 6-6 we get offered a spot in the Jiffy Lube cereal bowl and we accept because, "It's a reward for the players that have worked so hard." or "A win will serve as a springboard into next season" etc etc etc. Of course we'll lose our tenth straight bowl game and it will be like "Groundhog Day" but not funny. Gentlemen just because you win six games doesn't really mean that you "qualify" to play in a bowl. Just because you get invited doesn't mean you should go. Play USC, get creamed, fire Charlie, don't go to a meaningless Bowl, and rebuild this mess!
It's time to bite the bullet, we blew it with Charlie, we blew it a second time when they gave him that absurd 10 year contract. Enough is enough, a true leader realizes when he has made a mistake, admits it and corrects it. Administrators of ND, man up, Swarbrick do what needs to be done, get a coach!

11/24/2008 12:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vince from CA

Look, I love ND as much as anyone who went to school there, I wish I had. I'm not happy with the season either, but I didn't expect us to go 10-2 either. I am embarrased that some of you posting are ND grads or students the way you behave. You really sound like Raider fans trying to justify why al davis fires his coach every couple years and doesn't truly give his coach a chance to develope. Then think for one second that the team will be successful, it just doesn't happen.

I did the math, and I came to the same conclusion as many of you. With Wies we are competing for the National Championship in 2010. He will have a true four years of recruiting as well as the progression of the talent he has now.

The one thing I do agree with, and I have felt this way since 2006, Latina needs to go for the OL to get better. Also, the OL is made up of 2 Fr, So, 2 Jr, and a Sr, not Jr's and Sr's. If you paid attention Turkovich got better, but you can blame alot of the failings of the OL early on, on him and he's the Sr. True enough, Latina needs to go, not Wies. I have reservation too on Haywood. Our RB's should be alot further along, but then again you need an OL, so Latina needs to go. Latina had an experience line full of Seniors in 2006, and if you remember the beginning of 2006 our OL looked bad with experience, remember the michigan debacle.

So vent all you want, I think Wies stays and makes this team successful. We need to stop sounding like Raider fans. Let's ask for the AD to force Wies to find a better OL Coach. ND has never had an OL play the way this one has, especially with the talent it has. I coach football, and can tell you from experience that is a coaching problem. Honestly I think every other position is coming along nicely. I really thought we would be at least 7-5, but we still have a chance. GO IRISH!!! BEAT SC. Either way, we will win our bowl game, I have faith.

11/24/2008 01:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been a diehard Notre Dame fan my whole life. I just wanted to make a few points:

1) Fire Weis - I mean come on, Syracuse? A near loss against Navy? Pitt? Need I go any further? The guy has the talent and and easy schedule this year, but has FAILED. He's arrogant and is just plain embarrassing. Just compare him to respectable coaches such as Urban Meyers, Bob Stoops, Jim Tressel, and Peter Carroll - its embarrassing.

2) Bench Clausen and start Dayne Crist against USC. He's a blue chip and did very well in camp. Clausen is overrated and NOT improving.

3) I'm sick and tired of being embarrassed by ND's lack of passion. I constantly hear crap from ND-haters who tear us apart...it must end - LETS START WINNING or else....

I say Urban Meyer... Please read this and have an open mind

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20081120/COLUMNISTS0306/811200343/1065/SPORTS

11/24/2008 01:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The University owes Weis too much money to fire him now. He will be around for next year. That is a simple fact we must accept. This blog entry is essentially a feutal exercise. An article like this and its placement will only function to damage recruiting.

11/24/2008 02:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is my take. Give Charlie 1 (ONE) more year. LATINA and HAYWOOD should both be fired - no questions.

11/24/2008 02:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mike,

Of ND's successful football coaching hires (ie coaches that won NC's, right?)

Don't most of them have a defensive background? Lou did. Ara did. Not sure on Leahy/Rockne and Devine.

However, it should be noted that Leahy had a USC-esque talent advantage since he stacked ND with veterans from WWII. (Descriptions of Leahy's teams said ND had the #1 team in the nation and ND's JV was the #2 team. ie ND had ridiculous talent).

In retrospect, the fanbase ran out Devine and Holtz, when they didn't perform with Leahy/Rockne success.

I'm beginning to wonder if ND's fanbase is completely out of touch with ND's reality (No JUCO's, actual student athletes, moral coaches, and top notch W/L rates, all at the 85 (no longer 115) scholarship limit).....

So yeah, I'm not so sure a change at this time will make it better. Davie, O'Leary & Willingham sure lead me to believe it could be A LOT worse.

Give the man 1 more year to get back to the BCS.

11/24/2008 03:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Scientologist or not... at least he can develop talent on the college level.

11/24/2008 03:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Bob Archey '59, Seattle WA said...

Why are the majority of the posts here "anonymous"?

I've been a Notre Dame for over 50 years and have seen many coaches and many winning and losing seasons. I am not a big Charlie Weiss fan but am disturbed by the vitriol of some of these posts.

Let the new AD do his job - assess the situation based on the University's values (winning being only one of them) and take the action that he and the administration believe is necessary.

There were a number of good ideas among the vetting and ranting.

Go Irish

11/24/2008 03:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hire skip holtz,brian kelly,bud foster or paul johnson

11/24/2008 07:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Charlie really loves ND, then he should do the right thing and GO. I knew upon hearing that Charlie was taking over the play calling, the collapse was under way. He's so predictable, I heard everyday people in the stands calling out Charlie's next moves.

ND administration needs to get a proven winner and quit trying to "make" coaches.

We all thought Charlie was the football messiah especially after year 1, but since then, his teams are getting worse.

I agree we need to take advantage of his recruiting, and hand those studs over to someone who can do something with them before everybody realizes Charlie can't. I expect that will happen right now, and Charlie will not be able to continue getting commitments from blue chippers.

Please Charlie, leave for the sake of your school!

11/24/2008 08:27:00 AM  
Blogger Carl Pio said...

Sad to say but I agree - Coach Wies maybe a professional football offensive coordinator genius but he has proved to me, over the last 4 years, he lacks the quality of being a head coach, especially motivating young college men to win. He can recruit but that’s only one aspect of the job. What he hasn’t done is to breed a “killer” instinct into his team so when they get a lead they finish off the opposition – examples this year are: Pitt, NC and Syracuse. After USC, ND needs to cut him loose - its time for ND to become a premier National team again and not a laughing stock.

11/24/2008 08:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay, this is what I say. I basically went into cardiac arrest when we lost on Saturday. Not really. But I was mega pissed just like most of us are. We did not bring Weis in to humiliate the greatest team in college football. Right now I don't even want us to go to a bowl game because I don't want us to get embaresses on national tv like that. However, I say give Weis one more year. I can see an elite team in our team right now. Give him one more year to bring that elite team out. If he can't, then fire him. If he can, then thats great. Don't fire him now because who would we get. If we wait a year or a little longer, Urban Meyer might be ready to leave Florida and seeing as Notre Dame is his "dream school", we could get him. See what he's done with the Gators. That is my opinion. I am as pissed at Weis as all of you, and no I have not been drinking any Kool Aid. I just think that it would be bad time to fire him. And a word to Weis, coach with some emotion!!!
GO IRISH!!!!!

11/24/2008 08:33:00 AM  
Blogger Carl Pio said...

Sad to say but I agree - Coach Wies maybe a professional football offensive coordinator genius but he has proved to me, over the last 4 years, he lacks the quality of being a head coach, especially motivating young college men to win. He can recruit but that’s only one aspect of the job. What he hasn’t done is to breed a “killer” instinct into his time so when they get a lead they finish off the opposition – examples this year are: Pitt, NC and Syracuse. After USC, ND needs to cut him loose - its time for ND to become a premier National team again and not a laughing stock.

11/24/2008 08:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As lifelong Nd fan its sad to see the fall, but one thing is for sure those kids out there playing the are busting their tails every play and are put int the situations by the schemes they are taught in practice they are very young college players and yes they were highly touted players and understand football better than most of us so give them a break if any of you young men read this " you don't play for coach or mom or dad or grandma or grandpa you play for that guy lined up next to you on the line of scrimmage that should be the only motivation you need to bust your tail for 6 seconds at a time you do that and good things will happen i promise you we as ND faithful believe in you! Now leave it all on the field and thats all you can do! good luck!

11/24/2008 08:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Number one reason not to change the coach this year is SUPPLY and DEMAND. This year we have Tennessee, Clemson, Washington and probably Auburn and who knows who else all looking for big name heads. Add in the teams that will lose their coaches to these big name schools and there is a huge demand.
Now look at the supply: Mike Leach, Chris Peterson, Brian Kelley, Skip Holtz??? These are the top guys this year? Leach and Holtz both caved under pressure and neither has shown to be consistent (Ty Willingham anyone?) Brian Kelley is NOT established enough to make the jump to ND. Peterson is the most promising but I'd hesitate after taking a look at Colorado and the last coach to come from Boise St.

11/24/2008 08:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a ND fan I want to get two things off my chest!

1.) I'm so sick and tired of hearing about the"other sports" at ND and how they have progressed! Or the Graduation Ratings of the football team! FOOTBALL is what made ND! ND is FOOTBALL! Nothing else matters!

2.) Some of you alumni out there need to start asking the Adminstration their intentions for the football team (in reality the football team RAKES in the $ for ND)! As a loyal fan and an outsider to the ND Family, I want to know is adminstration CONTENT with the status of the program? If that is the case, then I would only as you Alumni to think about that the next time ND comes around asking for "DONATIONS"!?!

11/24/2008 09:45:00 AM  
Blogger Cleveland '96 said...

Regarding the "It's Time" Article:
Are you really suggesting we lower the moral standards for the coach? Are you kidding me? Every time the Irish go through a downswing the "lower the standards" argument rears its ugly head, but usually for the players, not the coach.
If anything, we need to raise the standards for the coach's demeanor. Weis wouldn't have embarrassed us all this much if he weren't so pumped full of pomposity. Charlie Weis is NOT an ND man to be proud of. We've all been hoodwinked, and for me, it's less about the wins and losses and more about his attitude.

Also, the head coach must lead by doing. Hire a coach who can run onto the field, demonstrate a stance, run a pattern, etc.

A poor leader says "go."
A great leader says "Let's go."

By the way, talent is worthless compared to heart and teamwork.

Brian ND '96

11/24/2008 10:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“So what you’re really doing is you’re taking these guys who are a bunch of pups, now have got a year under their belt and you go from a crummy team to what I think is a decent team"

Hmmmm, no mention of a much easier schedule. Decent = Mediocre

"I'd be fired at 9-3" Weis seems to sure have lowered his standards.

11/24/2008 11:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, the OL is made up of 2 Fr, So, 2 Jr, and a Sr, not Jr's and Sr's

Wow, most schools have a center, two tackles, and two guards for the O-line. What formation you running with 6 on the line?

11/24/2008 11:10:00 AM  
Blogger Nick said...

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
1) Charlie has made some big mistakes, but you cannot ignore the fact that he has been erasing a mentality of mediocrity that has weighed down the program since Bob Davie took over. I agree he needs to make some big changes with his staff (OC, Oline, Special Teams) but he sticks to his guns (scheme), which is what leaders do in tough times.
2) There is plenty of blame to go around. This young group has the skill and confidence to win it all, they just need to get over the hump of finishing games off. That's a maturity issue with the players that they need to develop themselves and unfortunately sometimes you have to learn that the hard way, like 3 gut wrenching losses in one season. The players should be held accountable b/c they are adults, and have been playing football their entire lives. I've seen bs posts about developing the o-line. Anyone who has played football knows you learn how to block in your very first year of pewee league, not when you get to college. You learn to fair catch punt returns when the gunners are in your face. You learn to cover up the ball after you catch it or when your driving in for a game sealing touchdown in the rain.
3) Regarding the argument that you need prior head coaching experience, you're comparing ND coaches from long ago when the game and recruiting was much different. Those coaches had stockpiles of talent and no middle tier teams to compete with like there are now. Carroll and Stoops did not have any at the college level, and now they are regarded as the best in the business, so what does that tell you? That you can build a program if you have the talent, which we have now. Charlie is beating them at the recruiting game and will start beating them on the field very soon.

JC, Golden, Armando, B. Smith, H. Smith co. will be bad asses next year (if we're really lucky next week), just like everyone predicted before the season started. To toss out Weis now would be a huge mistake.

ND '01

11/24/2008 11:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree he needs to make some big changes with his staff (OC, Oline, Special Teams) but he sticks to his guns (scheme), which is what leaders do in tough times.

I will give up the play calling, no wait, I will do the play calling. We will be Nasty and run the ball, no wait, we will be a passing team.

Charlie has not stuck to his gun yet. He is a desperate man, trying to do whatever he can come up with to survive. He is grasping at straws.

11/24/2008 11:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know ND is a top heavy, expensive admin mess that can't make a decision....there is no real leadership....when the law school has a "Director of External Realtions" position. Seriously, just got another email from this person. Wow...how silly. The ND admin empire building to itself just continues.....and continues....and continues. No more donations from me. I'll give to real charities now that don't own a private corporate jet. 501(c)(3)'s are a joke now...

11/24/2008 11:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie Weis is a classic example of the "Peter Principle" in action. For those of you who graduated from ND after 1969, this was at the time a new management/sociological theory. As I recall from 39 years ago, its premise was that many people who are successful at certain levels of their careers will eventually be promoted to a career level that is beyond their competence, and they will thereby become incompetent at that promoted level. Need I say any more.

11/24/2008 12:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While I have pulled out most of my hair watching this team mired in mediocrity this season, I am not ready to pull the plug on Charlie. First of all, this team is still very, very young. Only half of the starters (when everyone is healthy) are upperclassmen and the top playmakers on offense (Clausen, Allen, Tate, Floyd) are all underclassmen. The defense has done much better this year and I believe it is because they are a year older and their leaders are seniors (Crum, Kuntz, Bruton, McCarthy.)
Secondly, I think there will be costly defections if you get rid of Weis, who has shown these young men how special the University of Notre Dame is. This goes hand-in-hand with the reasons that Davie and Willingham were fired: they couldn't recruit. Charlie has shown that he can and will work tirelessly to get these outstanding scholar athletes to attend the University. Remember all the accusations that ND was finished because the standards were too high? Charlie threw those out the window.
Thirdly, who are you going to hire? Before we throw caution to the wind we better have some candidates lined up that can come in and lead us to the National Championship within four years.
Lastly, it's too costly NOT to give Weis at least one more year because of the rediculous contract we gave him. On top of paying another coach top dollar (I assume that most ND fans would want someone that demands top dollar) the buyout of Weis' contract would be mind-boggling.

I am upset and frustrated by the way this season has gone but I have not forgot the embarrassment of least season. This year's team is more competitive if nothing else and I still have hope that Charlie will evolve into a championship college head coach. The college football world is not the same as when Lou coached and ND has struggled to learn that ever since. But Charlie has gotten some of the top scholar athletes in the country to attend ND and I think he should have the chance to fullfill that committment to those young men. If we change direction too many times we might just end up doing a circle and ending up where we started.

11/24/2008 02:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie is nothing more than a slimy used car salesman. We were sold a lemon.

11/24/2008 02:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If we don't fire Charlie now, all our recruits will jump ship and go to a real football program that has a chance of winning a NC. They will have zero chance of a NC if they select ND. We need to secure these recruits by bringing in a new coach.

11/24/2008 02:23:00 PM  
Blogger jim / Redondo Beach said...

...I was in a bar, at the bar, yesterday (Sunday) in Palos Verdes Estates, California...there were three SC honks down from me taking shots at ND for various parts of the game on Saturday...I did nothing but listen and thank the good lord that I didn't have any ND gear on. Is this what it has come to? the team is an embarrassment...the offensive line is laughable...christ...

11/24/2008 02:46:00 PM  
Anonymous tridentum said...

Weis defenders - you are beyond parody now. Sad dreamers.

11/24/2008 02:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is ND the next US auto manufacturer looking for pity with excuses and no realistic real plan to adjust to the current times? You can be the greatest college recruiter in the world, but if you don't know where to put the talent to capitalize on individual strengths in order to create synergism, you fail as a leader. Lou could do that and so did Ara. If we had the strength of schedule this year that we had last year, we'd be 3-9 again. No opponent team on this year's schudule was a powerhouse except USC, and I'm sorry to say that it will be a mercy killing by the time the game is over. We barely qualify for a BCS bowl, and since our last win was in 1993, we need to bow out and let another team in our spot to avoid another embarrassment.

11/24/2008 03:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If we change direction too many times we might just end up doing a circle and ending up where we started."

2001 Davie's last season 5 wins, 6 losses

2004 Willingham last season 6 wins, 5 losses

2008 Charlie's fourth season 6 wins, 6 losses

Yeah, we should stay the course; things are definitely a lot better than our last two coaches. Against better competition too.

11/24/2008 03:37:00 PM  
Blogger jim / Redondo Beach said...

...could the "third year" coaching adage have been more right?...

11/24/2008 04:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm an ND fan and a NY Giants fan. just a couple of years ago the Giant "faithful" were calling for Tom Coughlin's head on a platter...even more recently Eli Manning's. It takes time to build anything worthwhile. Look at the Giants now, Super Bowl champs...probably the best team in the NFL. ND needs a couple of tweaks...and a little more enthusiasm and things will turn around FAST. Who hasn't had to face trials in their life? You can't give up and try someone new everytime things don't go your way. Take a deep breath and let nature take it's course.

11/24/2008 05:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It takes time to build anything worthwhile."

When you build something, usually you lay a foundation and that becomes the most important part. From there, everything else gradually ascends until finally all the parts are in place.

Charlie can not build this house. He does not have the skill set to lay a foundation. The house is crumbling down around him. And another year or two or seven will never repair the broken foundation that is Charlie Weis's.

It is a better thing to destroy this house of cards and clean the field, such that a real builder may start anew.

Go Irish!

11/24/2008 06:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ND will not fire Charlie before he gets his five years. He had two very productive years and two poor years. While he may not seem to have it as a head coach, he might look downright gifted with the right assistants. Since he'll get the fifth year anyway, here's hoping the administration can cut its teeth on football coaching selections by picking the right assistants for next year.

11/24/2008 07:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can make a change when things aren't going the right way, it happens in football all the time, college or pro. When someone is hired to do a job, a job with high standards, that person has to be held accountable. Four years is a long time in the college football world, more than enough time to right a ship. The win/loss record is the main statistic that a head coach should be judged by and the record that Weis has produced is just not good enough, not for me, not for the athletic department, not for the other masses of fans and especially not for the players. Last year was a pass and everyone said " the team is young, wait till next year ". Well, here we are, it is next year and it stinks because there are no excuses. Three years of what Scout.com called top recruiting classes and the results are poor. Weis may be a good man, he may care about Notre Dame but so do I. It does not mean he needs to be coaching them. Florida had problems, Alabama had problems, UCLA had problems and so did Michigan. They all went out and made a coaching change for the better, we'll see how Michigan and UCLA turn out. The evidence is clear as the facts stare you in the face without the use of pi** poor excuses; Weis has never beaten a dominant team, only came close once, he has never won a bowl game, not even close, he lost to Navy, Air force, and Syracuse, his overall record is mediocre, and he has spent more time with the media explaining why he lost. College football, like it or not, is a business to a lot of people. A head coach is paid to win and at Notre Dame he is supposed to win all the time. the standards were set with Rockne in the 20's. This is not some Sun Belt team we are talking about here where being above .500 is acceptable. This is The Fighting Irish built on years of hard work and dedication and winning. If you can not produce, then someone else should be given a chance. It's not working and it will not work next year or the next or the next. The pattern has been layed out and should not continue. Notre Dame was great, and has not been in a while and it has nothing to do with academic standards or being in a conference, it has everything to do with finding the right leader to coach a football team and win. I hope they make the right decision because the fans should not have to say "remember the 80's" or "well we should be better next year". Next year should be right now. - a concerned Irish fan

11/24/2008 07:36:00 PM  
Blogger Will said...

I've been very negative towards Weis after this loss, but some of the posts here disturb me.

First, let me say that some of my best friends at ND were not Catholic, and I had many friends in high school and now in graduate school who are not even Christian... that doesn't bother me, everyone should have the right (including our future coaches) to practice pretty much any religion they want to. Still, this is Notre Dame and thus...

1) Catholicism is not "tertiary" to ND. Catholicism is central to the university's identity and will thus be an important factor in our recruiting efforts. We should embrace our Catholicism, not dismiss it as "tertiary," and make it very clear to those recruits who aren't Catholic that we are a tolerant university precisely because we are Catholic. Even many non-Catholics love the grotto and basilica. ND renewed my faith as a student, and that is more important than all of the NCs in the world.

2) Priests do not run everything at ND, certainly not the hiring of football coaches. We have a lay board of trustees (implemented by Hesburgh decades ago) and Swarbick isn't a priest. I only had two classes with a priest as a Professor. HC Priests have a very important role to play at ND, but there are plenty of lay individuals who make important decisions (again the Board is a lay Board of trustees). Complain all you want about the football team, but I think the HC priests working with the lay trustees have done a great job working to help improve our school spiritually and academically. Jenkins and maybe one or two other priests would be the only priests on campus to have any say in hiring a coach, and they would be working together with lay members of the board and athletic department. So don't blame ND's football woes on our priests. They are great people, in fact NDnation had a nice article about one priest, former chaplain for the football team, who died recently and was a great mentor to many ND students.

3) I like the comment that someone made about writing as if yours was the only comment that someone might see and would judge ND accordingly based upon your contributions to a website like this. I have not held myself to such a high standard, and I will try to do so in the future. We can complain about Weis but avoid name-calling and profanity, it doesn't do any good. Let's pull together, try to be constructive not destructive while venting our frustrations, and remember that ND is much greater than merely its football team.

4) With that being said, I do agree that we need a new coach but for right now Charlie's our guy against SC. GO IRISH, BEAT TROJANS!!!!

11/25/2008 01:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd love to hear one person who is ready to pay Charlie 16 million to NOT coach this team make a case for any other head coach taking this job! Anybody have a name?

11/25/2008 10:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I'd love to hear one person who is ready to pay Charlie 16 million to NOT coach this team make a case for any other head coach taking this job! Anybody have a name?"

You're right, what were we thinking? This is Notre Dame, no one would want to come here and coach for $4M a year. Let's just keep Charlie.

11/25/2008 11:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is absolutely laughable that there are people on this board defending Weis. Do you people watch Notre Dame football? The guy is the single worst head coach I have ever seen on the Irish sidelines. I don't care if he is an alum who some of you seem to think is a good guy, his job is to win almost every game in which he coaches. That is what a good coach does.

He has been given a fair shake of four years and is failing at his job.

Also, the talent excuse is laughable, as well. Does Brian Kelly bring in top five and top ten recruiting classes every year? What is his record at Cincy, Central, and GVSU?

Yeah. He has had FOUR YEARS. FOUR YEARS.


Four Years. How many did Willingham get?

11/26/2008 12:40:00 AM  
Blogger Russell said...

I was mulling on the coaching situation last night. My feeling now is unless we know we get someone who is going to be a major improvement we have to keep Weis. Look at our last series of hires:

Devine -> Faust (horrible)
Faust -> Holtz (great)
Holtz -> Davie (bad)
Davie -> Willingham (worse)
Willingham -> Weis (bad - at least he recruits well)

At least if you keep Charlie for another year, if the season starts going south, you can start sending out feelers. Right now, I think that it would be another clusterf***.

11/26/2008 08:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nothing is going to be done unless the Administration gets their heads out of their a$$! They (the adminstration) need to lose the attitude that "we want" to be like Ivy League Schools! Last time I knew ND was CATHOLIC SCHOOL! Lastly, the way things are going right now in the program, GOD himself couldn't win with these clowns!

11/27/2008 10:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fire Bill Kirk too! Or at least pray that he gets some painful, fatal disease. I hope you read this Kirk, you coprophilic analingus!

11/27/2008 11:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We need a proven leader! This team has NO fight! It has been that way since Lou. Stupid mistakes on big plays are only a small part of the problems. I have loved ND and followed them faithfully since 1961and I am anxious for some class! Why didn't we attract Urban Myer? Why can't we attract a Nick Saban?
Let's go Irish!!!

11/28/2008 04:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Zak said...

Why no mention of Mike Leach? The guy has proven he can recruit and win with less than stellar players. Someone earlier said they would like a coach who can get about 8-9 wins a season and contend for a BCS bowl every few years.

TT's record over the past 4 years:
9-3
8-5
9-4
10-1 (so far)

Leach doesn't get the recruits that the rest of that conference does, yet he still wins. Admittedly, he doesn't have the best record against ranked opponents, but he's beaten the last 3 out of 4 top 25 teams he's faced.

You see what he's done with Graham Harrell and Crabtree. I think the Clausen and Floyd/Tate combo could have that kind of potential. Not to mention Armando is the perfect back for his system, quick and agile with decent hands.

I don't know, maybe he's not a great candidate, but I would be very interested to see his offense against the teams we play.

I'm just surprised he hasn't even been considered.

11/29/2008 04:01:00 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

I haven't heard the name at all, but I'd like to see us take a shot at stealing R.C. Slocum from his administrative job at Texas A&M. He never won fewer than 10 games in a season. He had huge success at a big name program and a school that takes academics seriously. He may not win us a National Championship, but he could make us a mainstay in the Top 20, if not the Top 10, beat that school out west, and win a bowl game. Once we get back to that level, we can start thinking about winning it all again.

I don't know that he'd take the job, but we should take a shot at getting him.

11/29/2008 08:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You people are nuts. I was in the student section during that loss to Syracuse, and you will find no greater disgruntled fans anywhere else, yet I still think that Charlie deserves another year to prove himself a winner. Why did Urban Meyer pass on the job? Because it would take too long to win. Why did we hire Charlie? Because he's building something to last. If only a handful of plays had gone the right way this season, UNC, Pitt, and Syracuse would be in the win column. Give me a freaking break and let Charlie continue to recruit and right this program."


Bingo. This is correct. Thnak you.

11/30/2008 03:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The guy is the single worst head coach I have ever seen on the Irish sidelines. I don't care if he is an alum who some of you seem to think is a good guy, his job is to win almost every game in which he coaches. That is what a good coach does."


Another whiner with a, make-me-happy-right-now-otherwise-you're-a-worthless-bum mentality, towards coaches.

(Oh, single worst coach? How 'bout the two back-to-back BCS bowls we went to? How easily we forget.)

Charlie needs an additional year to bring in recruits, fire Latina, and see if he can improve things further.

If he improves in '09, keep him.

Otherwise, yeah, a coaching search will need to be started.

11/30/2008 03:11:00 PM  
Anonymous TENICT said...

WEIS, you need to RESIGN NOW!

No one wants you around.

Take your money and go.

11/30/2008 05:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's what Charlie Weiss needs: less commitment to the aura and mystic of ND football and tradition and more of a commitment to playing the best players available irrespective of reputation and class position.

The offensive line continues to stink, particularly the right side. Sit down the big hunk of humanity with the big rep and play someone who can move his feet somewhat faster than a turtle and is able to flatten - pancake defensive people. My right hip placement, elderly, slow-footed white man's shuffle could get around most of these dainty flowers. Sit down a linebacker captain whose rep derived from playing behind a less than capable (see how charitable I am) defensive line and seems to be seldom anywhere near the ball let alone making tackles.

What Charlie needs to do is to start kicking some player and coach butts to jump start them into playing like something other than candy as*es. And, needless to say, fire coaches who have not and apparently cannot produce people who can block and tackle, and begin to design an imaginative offensive game plan, plays, and calls. This stuff ain't rocket science.

BTW: does Weiss' performance warrant another year? Of course it does. He's half of the way to building (back) a winning program in the aftermath of Witless Willingham. Congratulate the ND powers that be for recognizing what a disaster and loser Willingham was and is and firing him as early as they did, unlike the U. of Washington chumps who gave him one more year to produce or else - and boy, did he produce. It will take U. of Washington 4 to 5 years to build back its football program. Sound familiar?

Apparently, Charlie needs to take off the gloves and smack a few people upside the head if only to get their attention, and that goes for a lot of poobah boo-birds as well.

Go Irish . . . and Best Wishes for a triumphant 2009 season under Charlie’s tutelage.

12/01/2008 05:24:00 PM  

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