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NDNation.com Staff: Scott Engler - Michael Cash - John Vannie - Mike Coffey - Kayo - Bacchus

Monday, November 09, 2009

The Weis Fact Sheet

posted by Scott Engler
Regretfully, we're assembling another fact sheet. Something we could have easily done a year ago, but we waited until the end was beyond doubt. Please email us with any factual errors.
  • Under .500 over the last 3 seasons
  • Against teams with winning records: Weis 8-19 (.296) Faust 12-23 (.343) Willingham 12-15 (.444) Davie 18-22 (.450)
  • 0 wins against teams finishing in the top 10 of any of the major polls.
  • 0 wins over a team with less than 4 losses
  • 1 (1-13) win against teams finishing in the Top 25
  • Worst two year stretch in Notre Dame history (10-15)
  • First coach to lose to Navy since 1963 (twice)
  • First time in 73 years (the first year of polling) that an unranked Navy team defeated a ranked Notre Dame team
  • Worst loss to a service academy in 44 years (blown out by Air Force)
  • First coach in Notre Dame history to lose to an eight-loss team (Syracuse 2008)
  • 0-5 against USC
  • Average margin of defeat against USC: 19.8 ppg
  • The worst loss to any SC team (38 points largest margin of victory in the 79-game history of rivalry)
  • Losing records to Boston College: 1-2, Michigan: 2-3 and Michigan State: 2-3
  • Losses by 20 points or more: 8
  • More shutout losses: 3 (Boston College, USC, Michigan) in four years than Notre Dame had from 1965-2001
  • First 9-loss season in school history
  • First 0-4 start ever
  • First 0-5 start ever
  • Has lost to more teams that finished outside the top 50 (MSU 2007, Purdue 2007, GT 2007, Navy 2007, Syracuse 2008) than Willingham, Davie and Faust… combined (5-4)
  • Last overall offense in the country in 2007
  • Last overall in yards per play in 2007
  • Last overall in yards per game in 2007
  • Lowest average yardage in the history of Notre Dame football in 2007
  • Worst rushing team in ND history in 2007
  • Lost to Navy, USC and Michigan in the same year… twice
  • Set an NCAA record (58) for most sacks allowed in a season in 2007
  • Notre Dame finished 90th in the country in the 2007 Sagarin ratings… below Richmond, North Dakota State, Delaware, Navy, Florida Atlantic, James Madison and Wofford.
  • 3-16 record since 2007 against teams that finished with a winning record
  • Only coach in ND history to coach for five years and not score 50 points in a game (56 other teams topped 50 points during Weis’s tenure)
  • Weis has given up 40+ points in a loss 6 times, 30+ in a loss 19 times
  • Currently has the 84th ranked defense in the country
  • Will miss the BCS three straight years
  • No BCS wins in five years of coaching
| More


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Simply put... Ouch

11/10/2009 12:02:00 AM  
Anonymous eight in a row said...

here's another one...Cholly Weis has never defeated a team that finished the season with less than 4 losses. So far, Weis has only beaten 8 teams that ended the season with a winning record. Here they are...

Michigan (7-5) 2005
Navy (8-4) 2005
Georgia Tech (9-5) 2006
Penn St (9-4) 2006
Purdue (8-6) 2006
UCLA (7-6) 2006
Navy (9-4) 2006
Navy (8-5) 2008

After the 2009 season, Cholly can probably add Nevada and Boston College to that list though both those teams will lose at least 4 games.

11/10/2009 12:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That is unbelievably depressing. And after one of the most embarassing losses we hear resolve that nothing will ever change his coaching method? What's the basis for such entrenchment except for arrogance or obstinate delusion? I fiercely backed Charlie, but now I'm embrassed in front of all those I had "explained" things to over the last three years.

It's terrible when an ND grad looks for other teams to root for while ND is still playing, and has to resort to Schadenfreude to get any enjoyment out of game day. Pathetic.

11/10/2009 01:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is another one. The most disapppoining stat I have heard. Charlie Weis' Notre Dame teams are 5-3 vs. the service acadmeys. HORRIBLE!!

11/10/2009 07:22:00 AM  
Blogger Robbie said...

What sucks even more is now Michigan looks as horrible as we do, and we lost to those a-holes.

Does anyone here think that he keeps his job if he beats Pitt, UCONN, and Stanford??

Will anyone count Pitt as a signature victory?? I saw #8 in the AP and #12 in the BCS??

I'm not sticking up for the guy. We lost to Navy.....a 7-3 navy team that almost beat OSU, and plays a tougher then expected schedule. What if he fires Corwin Brown or/and John Tenuta?? He fired John Latina, and look what happened? We got a new coach and the offensive line is a lot better.

I'm a skeptic too, but it is not Charlie's fault Floyd botched a play and Jimmy fumbled.

I'm in agreeance with everything written in the article....pathetic, but When you call for his head remember these things...

unless Urban Meyer really does want to come here or Brian Kelly....why doesn't anyone ever mention Paul Johnson?? Ok....back to what I was saying....

1) other then those coaches who could we get?? Do you really think Gruden would be the answer?? I don't think so.....he lost that tampa team's focus after he won a title. He does seem to have that Pete Carrolesque charisma though.
2) What will happen to recruiting unless you deliver on a big name coach?? You do have to remember that these recruits believe in ND because of Weis. We could lose some freshman or sophomores, and our name would drop off of most high schoolers top choices.
3) I know it points back to weis, but it is John Tenuta and Corwin Brown's fault. Weis is a QB coach and OC, and this is his first Head coaching job....ever. Meyer, Saban, and even Holtz had one or two head coaching jobs prior to coaching on the big stage.

One more question/theory?? Weis couldn't even warrant a head coaching job in the NFL. The most he would get is an OC job. Is it really that out of the ordinary to think that perhaps he stays on as an OC/QB coach/Recruiter for another big name coach?? He would be the highest paid OC, but you can't argue what he has done in the of JC, BQ, and recruiting. Now that Verducci is here he has been able to run the ball, which has added to his schematic advantage.

Do you roll the dice and thrown an offer out to Belicheck?? (i know I know....pipe dream)

I want a better coach too, but as we learned before, we can't get whoever we want whenever we want.

11/10/2009 07:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A bad list for sure, but the first fact is wrong? Only 1 season was under .500 (2007). Last year was 7-6 including the bowl game. Is there more to the first fact that is missing?

11/10/2009 07:54:00 AM  
Blogger peter said...

One thing is for sure. Notre Dame was correct in firing Ty Willingham! Look what he did at Washington! They need to do the correct thing again and bring in a proven collegiate coach.

11/10/2009 08:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some people would say I live in a dream world, but this Irish team has fight and they will win their next three games and finish 9-3 and win their bowl game. At 10-3 to me that is improvement. The real question is: Is this team this year better than last year? The answer is positively YES!!! People expect to much too quick. All fans need to be supportive and not so negative

Go Irish

11/10/2009 08:24:00 AM  
Anonymous NJ said...

really Robbie - you think we get Bill B as our head coach. Kegs and Eggs are only supposed to be on weekends

11/10/2009 08:28:00 AM  
Blogger The Rock said...

A three loss year is not an "improvement" that's what he did in 2005 and 2006 and that's not good enough. It's just improvement off self-created historic lows.

11/10/2009 08:31:00 AM  
Blogger Dr. Vanostran said...

Regarding fact number 1, I think that stat regards total wins and total losses over the three year span, not each season.

Over the past three seasons, ND is 16-18. ONLY if ND wins out this year will that stat go over .500 to 19-18.

11/10/2009 08:42:00 AM  
Blogger The Rock said...

The Dr. is right.

11/10/2009 09:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't give this to me. Send it to Jack Swarbrick and send it register mail so that we're sure he gets it. I'm sure you can find his address...

11/10/2009 09:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you leave out 2007, when Weis had few talented veterans and had to play so many kids right out of high-school, many of those stats would change. I judge him on the 13+ spike in points in 2005, same in 2006, the poor job last year, and yet to see this year (although Navy loss was poor). If we finish 9-3, with a defense that is terrible, and an offense that he once again developed from horrible to one of the most lethal in the country, he deserves to coach next year. Your stats are skewed b/c, with 2007, and even 2008, you're talking about a time of unprecedented lack of depth and very young talent (fortunatately) due to Willingham's terrible recruiting and transfers. I view Weis in light of 2005, 2006, and this year. That is, potent offenses, average to poor defense, not winning the big games. Pitt would be a start for a big game win and the defense must be fixed or he deserves to be fired.

11/10/2009 10:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love stats and analysis because both usually confirm what your gut tells you and what you see in life. I haven't believed that Weis was the guy since we lost to Michigan at home in his second season, and while I don't post often, I have never backed him. I also felt Davie and Ty were mistakes as well. I don't know the answer for a new coach, but it definitely isn't Weis (or Belechick,were you serious?). But here are my recommendations for finding the right guy:

1) Get someone that has been a winning head coach. No assistants. We need someone that has held the job.

2) Get someone that has competed at the highest level. My concern about Kelly is that he has done an amazing job beating tier 2 and tier 3 teams, but like anything in life, you need to have been in those high level situations, live the experience and have some wins. Remember Lou had years of competing with the best in the country at Arkansas, and while he didn't win them all, he has some signature wins.

3) Bring in someone who knows how to use energy and emotion to get you through the season. This is a tool that needs to be dialed up and down during the season, but when used correctly, it makes the difference.

4) Get someone a bit younger. Sorry to say but in the age of twitter, college sports is changing and when leading young men you need to teach them fundamentals, leadership but be able to understand what motivated college student athletes. When I hear coaches say they will not change, they missed the boat.

5) Get someone who has been in a higher pressured head coaching experience. The pressure on the next guy will be really high. You need someone who can handle it. That's why I feel a Meyer, Miles, Stoops would be best.

11/10/2009 10:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Take away 2007 from the equation b/c there were so many mitigating circumstances. Consider his 4 other seasons and the development of the offense. He has yet to build a strong defense and that's why we can't win the big one. We have some good young players on d though. If he can fix the d, we have a chance to be a great team next year.

11/10/2009 10:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It'd be great to get an experienced head coach who has won pressure games at a big school. Urban Meyer, though saying ND was his dream job, went to Florida b/c it's easier to recruit, esp. defensive players, and win there. It's highly unlikely that Meyer, Stoops, or Miles, or any other big-name coach at a big-name school is coming to ND. Look at what has happened to our last three coaches. Ruined reputations, out of football. I agree that hiring a youthful coach may be a positive, but he has to be an excellent recruiter, motivator, and innovator. Our only hope is to get a head-coach from a smaller school who has these skills, or someone like Gruden. And the person, first-and-foremost, better be able to recruit or 2007/08 will become a continued reality and fans will become happy w/ 9 win seasons.

11/10/2009 10:32:00 AM  
Blogger David Collins said...

I don't know why the ND community is so up in arms over this loss, Navy is a good football team, probably better than ND (blasphemy). I saw a smart disciplined team run roughshod over the Irish. These teams play 10 times, and I guarantee you Navy wins 7, especially if half the games are in Annapolis. The problem here is that the fandom believes the hype, the fandom is convinced the recruits CW has gotten to come to ND are better than they actually are. Newsflah: they're not that good...if they were than good then they would ne playing elsewhere (with the exception of Tate, Floyd...and I hedge on JC). Everyone else on that team is just OK - not bad, but not particularly good. Face facts, ND is a mediocre football program, not just a mediocre football team, but a mediocre football program.

There are 65 schools making up the 6 BCS conferences, and 54 are huge state universities with commensurately huge budgets, endless resources, and many places to hide the so-called "student-athletes" needed to make runs at NCs. The other 11 are small private schools like ND. Of those 11, only two are making the necessary "commitment" (read: relaxed academic standards) to run with the big boys: USC (doing it) and Miami (will be doing it again soon). 8 others (Vandy, BC, Baylor, Northwestern, Stanford, Wake, Duke and Syracuse) have decided they will not compromise academic integrity, electing instead to comfortably travel in coach with the occasional lightning in a bottle year upgrading them to first class. Only one program has an identity crisis, and that's ND. The fandom wants the NCs AND the academics. But as is evident, you can;t have it both ways, that ship has sailed, and quite a long time ago, the Holtz sellout years notwithstanding (when ND briefly made the "commitment"). If you look at the history of college football, there are eras. The early years were dominated by the Ivy League, then the service academies and Notre Dame in the 40s-50s-60s, and now the state universities. 75-80% of everything noteworthy ND has done on the gridiron took place in the 40s-50s-60, with a little leakage into the 70s (check out when all the Heismans were won), yet people talk about the glory like it was yesterday. When the haters call ND delusional, this is what they mean.

11/10/2009 11:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, as much as I wish Dave's comments were not true, they really are, except for the talent piece. I would argue ND has better talent than Navy, at least when they came out of HS. But, Dave is right, ND's glory were the Knute, Leahy, Ara, Lou years, and it has been almost 20 years since ND had a team that competed. However, most programs go through these types of changes, and it will be interesting to see how ND chooses to get through this dilemma. I will say this, it will not happen by scheduling Western Michigan late in the season, that is a mistake that could be a tipping point to push ND out of the spotlight.

11/10/2009 11:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Personally, I'd offer Skip Holtz the job. Proven at UConn and E. Carolina. The Pirates gave Va Tech everything they wanted this year with alot less talent. Score was 13-9. I believe that was the lowest Tech has been held all year. And I bet he would come. Just sayin.

11/10/2009 11:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To be fair in the comparison b/t previous coaches, take out their worst year (esp. since 2007 was considered a result of horrible recruiting). Then you have the following winning % for each coach: Davie - 30-18 (excluding 1999) for a 62.5% wp. Willingham - 16-8 (exluding 2003) for 67% winning %. Weis: 32-15 (excluding 2007) for 68% winning %. Remember, Willingham's main failure was recruiting and Weis will leave the future coach with talented players.
By using consideration w/ re to the 2007 and Weis's culpability, you also must consider his achievements:
-winningest coach in first two years in ND history
-dramatic increase in offensive output in 2005, 2006, and a top-5 offense this year, rebuilt from scrap from two years ago
-first coach since Holtz with bowl win
-best recruiter, according to Rivals and Scouts, since Holtz

In light of that perspective, it's only fair to give Weis a chance in these last three games. Improvement from Willingham's scrap heap in 2007 to 2009 has been remarkable, on the offensive side of the ball. The defense is what is holding this team back and needs to improve dramatically. Nonetheless, the revitalization that this team had in 2005 and dramatic improvemet since 2007 shows evidence that Weis can coach and certainly develop the offense. The last three games of this season may very well confirm or deny his capability as a head coach.

11/10/2009 12:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all - it seems as though everyone is leaving out someone on their lists who I feel would be a perfect fit for Notre Dame should they deem it necessary to replace Charlie at the end of the season.

This coach is for one main thing, unemployed - therefore giving him plenty of immediate access to recruiting.
Second, this coach has led a high profile program in what has to be the most passionate conference (fanbase) in the US - the SEC.
Third, this coach is a winner. Undefeated season in the SEC.
Fourth, this coach's players were never in trouble, they graduated and went to class, and although not Catholic - he has a Christian value system commisserate with that of the University.
Fifth, his teams were built on strong defense, solid quarterback play and unstoppable running attacks.

Know where I'm going? Tommy Tubberville. I actually thought CW might bring him in as the Defensive Coordinator last season. Tommy would fit the bill folks.

Just keep him in mind.

Keown - 05MBA

11/10/2009 12:26:00 PM  
Anonymous ndmike21ncs said...

He will lose his next 3 games, 4th in a row, and will not be around to coach the bowl game.

11/10/2009 12:36:00 PM  
Blogger Harry Collins said...

In response to Anonymous, I agree that the ND players coming out of HS individually had more talent than their Navy counterparts, but last time I checked football was a team game. And the Navy team is superior to the ND team. I don't know how you could watch that game Saturday and conclude otherwise. The old saw in football is you need to "run the ball, stop the run" to succeeed. When you run the ball at will, you contol the clock, keep the other team off the field, etc. (not to mention the humilation factor). And when the other team finally gets the ball back, they have to throw and throw and throw to catch up with time running out. As Bill Parcells used to say, when you throw the ball, three things can happen, and two of them are bad (interceptions and sacks).

The apologists can look at the game and point to turnovers and the fumble on the goalline. But those same people weren't saying that about the BC game 2 weeks ago when the shoe was on the other foot, with BC commiting 5 turnovers, including a fumble at the goal line that would put them up 10 late in the 3rd quarter. The apologists can say this Irish team has lost three games by a total of 13 points, but those same people need to also say that this Irish team has won four games by a total of 17 points. "You are what you are" as the saying goes, and the Irish are nothing but a middling team, and a middling program.

11/10/2009 01:22:00 PM  
Anonymous cmhirish said...

Dave makes some good points. "I saw a smart disciplined team run roughshod over the Irish. These teams play 10 times, and I guarantee you Navy wins 7....".
Taking this a step further: Let’s concede for a moment that ND and Navy have equal talent across the board. What then was the difference in the game? I say discipline and fundamentals. Having a process and executing it consistently. In a single word, coaching. Smarts, discipline, and fundamentals are the responsibility of the coaches. If the talent is equal, coaching is the difference. That being said, on the whole, the talent on ND’s roster is at the very least equal to the talent on Navy’s roster.

What about fortunate bounces and things the coach can’t control? Things like actually knowing the signals so that you’re not blocking when the pass is coming your way, or protecting the ball when it’s in your possession and pouncing on any loose ball, or putting a hat directly on the ball and causing a fumble - are all fundamentals that can be taught. Chance favors the prepared mind. Navy was better prepared to be opportunistic and to a degree create their own luck. Navy was better coached. Discipline and fundamentals.

Coaching. There must be consequences for missed assignments or bonehead plays, i.e. disciplined coaching forces disciplined play. How many times this season have experienced, senior leaders (e.g. Sam Young, Eric Olsen) been called for bonehead, undisciplined penalties? And how many of those times have they been yanked and received an ass-chewing, or more, because as experienced, senior leaders, they should know better? Discipline and fundamentals.

Discipline and fundamentals.
Being able to stop the fullback dive play, because they’ve run it before.
Covering the SC tight end on the play-action fake, because they’ve run it before.
Defeating a lame-duck coach and his 2-8 football team, on your home field, on senior day.
Not having to go “back to training camp” 3 games into the 2007 season because you don’t know how to block and you can neither run the ball nor protect the passer.
Discipline and fundamentals solve a great many problems.

Give me an experienced college head coach that understands what ND stands for and teaches discipline and fundamentals. We’ll be just fine. We’ll simply lose when the other team is better than us. I still won’t like it then, but that I could live with.

11/10/2009 01:38:00 PM  
Blogger The Rock said...

Folks, this is a NAVY team that just lost to Temple. We were dominated by a 50ish team while we have top 10 talent.

What's the only possible difference maker?

11/10/2009 01:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Jarbaby said...

We all know the shortcomings of Charlie Weis when it comes to the defensive side of the ball, but the most glaring problem I see is his inability to motivate his players game after game. The team shows NO emotion. EVER. And that is because they have followed the lead of their coach. As much as I despise USC, Pete Carroll is one of the most enthusiastic and emotional coaches out there and his team's consistently respond to the tone he sets.

Because our players are never FIRED UP to play (see Navy for an example of this), Notre Dame stadium is no longer a feared place to play as anyone, and I mean anyone, is capable of coming in there and leaving with a win.

Until the admin and AD realize the unparalleled importance that emotion plays in college football, we will continue to flounder.

We need a fiery, emotional coach who will restore the confidence and bravado that teams back in the late 80's and early 90's showed. So long as we're susceptible to the current methods of motivation, we should be content to expect second-tier bowls and home losses.

11/10/2009 01:51:00 PM  
Blogger wseidensticker said...

Jarbaby was right on; Robbie had good idea: if Weis truly loves the U. of N.D., step down and stay on as Offensive and recruiting coordinator. He has finally proven that despite good skills in running the offense, he simply doesn't have the right stuff to make it as a college head coach evidenced by the lack of discipline and emotion.
Sticker 66

11/10/2009 02:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

19-13 at home.

11/10/2009 03:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie is not only a terrible coach primarily because he has not been able to develop any of the talented athletes that he has recruited, but an arrogant ill-mannered individual. A valid comparison is Ara Parseghian. He inherited a team which went 2-7 in 1963. He took the players he inherited and went 9-1 in 1964 loosing the very last game in the last 2 minutes to Southern Cal in LA. He developed many players which were drafted and played in the NFL. One player John Huarte won the Heisman Trophy.

My other big complaint about Weis is that nobody seems to like him, including myself. Almost 3 years ago I was at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel for the Annual College Hall of Fame Ceremony with an entire table of University of Virgina graduates sitting at a table on the main floor next to Charlie Weis' table. Before the event officially started I say him and went over to him introducing myself as a "double domer" who also had formerly been very involved with Notre Dame athletics. I received a very cold "what do you want" reception. He was not pleased that I took the time as a fellow domer to introduce myself and wish him well. Standing to Charlie's back was Ara Parseghian. I went over to him introduced myself and received a very warm, sincere greeting. The reception I received from Ara is what I should also have received from Charlie; him being a supposed good-will ambassador for the university. Since that personal meeting and all of the stories I have heard from many people back at campus confirming his arrogance I have rooted "against" him. It is time for the university to fire him and move on with a real professional and good will ambassador.

11/10/2009 04:39:00 PM  
Blogger the iNDefatigable mjenks said...

To everyone touting Weis' offensive genius...what part of the red zone futility this season has struck you as an improvement over teams in the past? Where has the decided schematic advantage gone? Is it in the plow into the line twice and then throw a fade that's up for grabs? Or the predictably fourth-and-short plays?

I will withhold judgment until after the season is complete, but the body of work is pointing toward yet another dismal finish.

11/10/2009 04:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got one.

Replaced the turf in the stadium last year and it's blown up 3 shoulders from landing on it this year.

11/10/2009 05:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When Aldridge got hurt I thought it was an unfortunate fall. The after Floyd I thought it was bad luck. Now after Rudolph, has the Mecca of football forgotten how to take care of a field too?

11/10/2009 05:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Staggering and graphic display of ineptitude from a self-proclaimed savior. I don't know what I would do without this site digging into the muck and displaying the cold, hard facts.

I enjoyed the tidbit on a post about Lou Holtz letting his son call the plays--I have never been a Holtz fan and after trying to run Pollus in a the option-well.

The big sticking block seems to be this contract issue, a legacy from Kevin White that only confirms my suspicion that he never was a ND fan. However, I think the pros offer the out for ND.

According to those who have met him, Weis' ego is large. ND could offer him a chance to resign. When he declines, they could announce they are hiring someone to come in to oversee the program much like a GM. This will professionally undercut Weis much like Zorn at DC, Mangini at Cleveland, etc. I doubt he could handle that.

11/10/2009 05:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Next coach should be Jim Harbaugh. Team plays hard nosed, smash mouth football. Team has overachieved in a top conference. Has one of the great all time upsets. Knows about playing in the midwest.

11/10/2009 05:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rocktal Lets get Jon Gruden out of the booth and on the field. He's from South Bend and his father was an assistant to Dan Devine. He won a Super Bowl and could be the next Pete Carrol.

11/10/2009 05:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weis' situation reminds me of the story Weis told when he was hired at ND. As a ND student he went into Father Hesburgh's office to tell him how dissatisfied he was with the ND coaching situation (I think it was Devine at the time) and that he had recommendations on how the football program could be improved. I don't recall Hesburgh's retort but he diplomatically put Weis back in his place.

An ironic fate twenty so years later.

11/10/2009 06:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You cannot blame Weis AND Willingham for 2007. I have seen hundreds of articles saying that 2007 was a mulligan because Willingham f-ed us in recruiting. You can't now use it as a reason to fire Weis if you were being honest about Willingham. I'm pissed about this year's results as much as the next ND crazy, but let's be realistic and fair about 2007, which if we're still attributing to Ty (as I am), knocks down half your list.

Furthermore, Weis can't be held responsible for how many wins or losses another team ends up with. Just becuase he beat them and they finished with mediocre records doesn't mean he's a horrible coach. Now if he lost to all those mediocre teams, that's another thing. Let's not employ sophistry and do compare apples to apples - if you want a good metric you have to use the record of the team at the time of the win, not the end of the season.

11/10/2009 06:24:00 PM  
Blogger BuzzF117 said...

John Gruden watch has begun...

11/10/2009 06:29:00 PM  
Anonymous J said...

lets be serious...this can't continue any longer. fire CW, hire BRIAN KELLY. heck bring LOU back. he's the man!


11/10/2009 06:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most of us have given Charlie too much slack for much too long. Reading so many contradictory posts reinforces my conclusion that despite every break, at the end of the year Charlie will have failed to reestablish ND as a top program.

Example #1: Discounting 2007 because of the "awful" Ty recruits, but ignoring the fact that Charlie did win substantially more in 2005 and 2006, also with "awful" Ty recruits. He can't have it both ways. He failed to get the players ready to play in 2007. End of story. He's the head coach.

Example #2: Calling Charlie a "great" recruiter, but then questioning whether ND or Navy possesses superior talent. Huh? I saw the game: the Navy team gave up serious weight and athletic ability across the field. Because Charlie's recruits fail so often to live up to their lofty rankings, I can draw only two conclusions: (a) Charlie is a bad judge of talent, or (b) Charlie fails to develop the talent when it arrives.

Example #3: Giving Charlie tons of credit for developing BQ, JC & GT, but not assigning blame for the countless four and five star recruits who fail, or have failed, to live up to their God-given talent. Don't they come to ND to develop as athletes, scholars and young men? Because they attend a world-class university, I'm certain they develop finely in the last two categories, but what is Charlie teaching them?

11/10/2009 08:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can we keep Charlie as a recruiting specialist? Though I do wonder how it is he's so good at motivating these high school kids and make them believe in ND when he can't even do it most of them time with his own players.

11/10/2009 09:46:00 PM  
Blogger Ed said...

When you add it all up like this, it looks horrible. Not very good resume material!

11/10/2009 10:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe you forgot worst loss to an SC team we've been playing since the 20's in '07 by 38 points (largest margin of victory in the 79-game history of rivalry).

11/11/2009 12:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You forgot to mention: most yards gained against ND in a single game (one of the USC games).

11/11/2009 12:16:00 AM  
Blogger Melis said...

Can I just say that I was pregnant for 2 1/2 of these godawful seasons? And had to watch all of these games dead sober? Do you know what that's like?! It's awful. I hate him.

11/11/2009 07:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Kurt in Foco said...

As a USC alumnus and fan who experienced similar football program lows in the 1980s and 1990s, I want to throw out a few ideas about the current problems of ND football...this is not ND bashing, just observations:

1. I think that many of the systems that rank recruiting classes over-rate the incoming talent of many major college programs based on simply "who they are." It happened to USC a lot in the mid-80s (with that talent going 6-5), and I think that is part (maybe 25%) of the problem for ND recently.

2. On the flip-side, some years ND hauls in a LOT of talented recruits, yet the fans watch in frustration as the COACHING fails to correctly utilize the playing talent (such as USC throughout the 1990s). The program will send lots of talent to the NFL, and you wonder why they couldn't put it together while at the school. This is clearly 75% of the problem at ND right now.

3. Weis has an ego from me to you. It is actually sad to watch this guy operate as if he is bigger than the Irish football program (no pun intended), and that harms the entire atmosphere of ND football.

4. The "Weis Fact Sheet" speaks for itself. He is not at all a good coach. He should be let go.

In closing: take heart, Irish fans. USC went through many down years and some poor coaches before we struck gold with Pete Carroll, as did Oklahoma with Bob Stoops. Perhaps the next ND coach will put it all together and wake up the echoes, provided that the powers-that-be make the right selection this time.

11/11/2009 08:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the 2007 year should be thrown out of the discussion since that team was made up of Willingham's Juniors and Seniors....all 7 of them. This year is inexcusable though.

11/11/2009 09:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weis is clearly not a good or even average head coach and should not continue at ND. In addition to his inept performance, I don't think he is a good representative of ND. Based on his recruitment of Terrelle Pryor, he is considered to be very arrogant here in Western PA. As an example, according to those at Jeannette High School, Weis showed up and was flashing his super bowl ring and asking if anyone wanted to touch it and/or have an autograph. He is way too full of himself.

11/11/2009 10:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

who ever pointed out the amount of slipping on the field is a genius and I think he is right. I have watched numerous players slip and fall and on some slips it prevented them from scoring a touchdown. The slip in the USC game is a good example. I hope the powers that be look into this. I hope this away game at Pitt may prove something.

11/11/2009 11:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

not verified myself but the combined records of the teams cholly has beaten the last 3 seasons is something like 50-100. or teams that only win about 1/3 of their games

11/11/2009 01:18:00 PM  
Blogger Dad said...

I think David Collins is right. The times have changed and ND has to decide which path it's going to take. Do we really want to be like USC or Florida, where the football team is really just a semi-pro team that represents the school, just like the Bears, for example, represent Chicago? Do we really want to "hide" unqualified students whose classwork is a joke and whom we have to monitor constantly to keep out of jail? I'd rather have my beloved Notre Dame be honest and true to itself than a hundred NCs. We never should have expanded the stadium, built the Goog, signed a contract with NBC, or packaged the pep rallies to the point that they're held in contempt by people who can remember how it was back in the day. (Oh, for a time machine.) Let's form a league with the academies, Stanford, Northwestern, etc. Let the other schools have a pro football team if they want. We won't sell as many T-Shirts, but we'll still have the school we love.

11/11/2009 07:34:00 PM  
Blogger James said...

don't overlook the fact that Weis has no AP All-Americans to his credit. All-American Jeff Samardzija goes on Ty Willingham's resume not Weis'. Notre Dame has a glorious history for producing All-Americans, but not on Weis' watch.

11/11/2009 10:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I really don't like to compare our coach with Pete Carroll but Pete Carroll turned SC's football program within two years. What does our Cholly do? NOTHING, not a god damn thing and our football team gets worse and worse. Please please go out and find a great coach so that we can kick SC's behind.

11/12/2009 01:08:00 AM  

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