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NDNation.com Staff: Scott Engler - Michael Cash - John Vannie - Mike Coffey - Kayo - Bacchus

Monday, November 09, 2009

On-the-Job Training is Over

posted by Scott Engler
posted by The Rock

(The Rock Report) – Here’s how I started last year’s column, On-The Job-Training:

“At this point it's hard to understand how a realistic fan could have confidence that Notre Dame will improve to championship caliber under Weis.”

This article is mostly a rehash - different year, same problem. Here we sit, a year later and Charlie is still throwing darts trying to figure out what’s wrong. Weis’s tenure has been a litany of bumbling, head-scratching moves.

Let’s start on defense.

In five years he’s had four different combinations of defensive coordinators: Minter, Brown, Brown/Tenuta and Tenuta running a 4-3,3-4, 4-3 and a 4-3 that blitzes constantly. A defense that has never been ranked higher than 37th and five years later is worse than in any previous year.

Someone actually suggested Tenuta is the problem. No. The problem is that ND has a head coach who has no clue what to do or what works. This defense, returning almost the same personnel, is now ranked 79th in the country and was gutted by Navy.

How about offense, Charlie’s strength?

Let’s step back. Mike Haywood was hired as an offensive coordinator in name only as Charlie ran the offense to a brilliant year in 2005. Charlie and quarterback coach Peter Vaas parted ways in 2006 (he was the one person who reportedly could contradict Charlie.)

2006 saw a marked decline in performance. Quinn dropped from 8.7 YPA to 7.3 YPA and from 326 YPG to 263 YPG despite throwing the ball more in 2006. Charlie was trying to throw himself out of a hole, but lack of protection and focus on a passing game the required a high amount of precision crippled the Irish who were pummeled the last two games of the season. Charlie complained the plays were good. No Charlie, they required too much precision to work.

2007 was an unmitigated disaster with the Irish finishing last in all of college football in offense. Charlie refused to run, which resulted in an injured Clausen getting sacked for an NCAA record at the time. Our OL couldn’t run block and couldn’t pass block. It was the worst offense in Notre Dame history. The Irish averaged just 2.1 yards per rush and 75 yards rushing a game.

Notre Dame finished 90th in the country in the Sagarin ratings… below Richmond, North Dakota State, Delaware, Navy, Florida Atlantic, James Madison and Wofford.

How did Charlie change for 2008? His solution was to promote Mike Haywood, a coach with no experience calling plays, to offensive play-caller. Charlie declared he was going to "pound it" and had the offensive line beef up, but instead, he went right back to a passing game with slow offensive lineman that couldn’t block effectively on screens or execute in the running game. The result was a bungling offense that averaged less than 20 points per game until Hawaii.

Think about that: Two years in a row with an offense that couldn't manage 20 points a game on average during the regular season. Offensive genius? A hundred coaches in the country could have generated more offense.

Magically Charlie realized that (okay after an NDNation article) that winning teams were highly effective in the rushing game and Charlie made it his goal for 2009 to average 4.6 yards a rush. So Charlie, after four years you figured out we need a good rushing game?

Notre Dame’s offense is much improved, but still only managed 21 points against Navy and is averaging 31 points per game (less than 2005 and 2006.) Even on offense, we’re still figuring it out.

Special Teams?

What a roller coaster. Charlie made Polian special teams coach in 2007 and we had some of the worst special teams in the country. His solution? To take over special teams himself in 2008, which of course was unsustainable. Special teams improved, but with Charlie not as involved, they’ve fallen off far in 2009. Might help if he had just hired a real special teams coach who knew what he was doing.

Practice Methods?

Three years into this tenure he decided Notre Dame needed more physical practices.

Four years in he figured out they needed to stress fundamentals.


Charlie’s first two classes were abysmal and mediocre respectively. How many seniors are starting on this team? His lack of focus on the defensive line left gaping holes that are being exploited this year. Mullen, Nwankwo, Ryan, Wade and Richardson are our only seniors on the defensive line… of those, only Ryan is contributing now. Charlie’s recruiting hit its stride with the Junior and Sophomore classes, but cratered again with the Freshmen class. Despite Manti Teo, Notre Dame took only one defensive back who’s hurt and may not play much, one defensive lineman and no quarterbacks (which could haunt ND in 2010 with Crist still on the mend and Clausen likely gone.) He did prove Notre Dame could recruit with anyone in the country, but his spotty early recruiting is coming back to roost. Another mediocre recruiting class and Notre Dame could be headed back down the drain.

What does it all mean?

Putting all of those pieces together, it’s not hard to figure out why ND is still struggling.

In 2008, we had “a completely inexperienced offensive coordinator, a defensive coordinator with one year of experience and a special teams coach with little experience and a track record of under performance!?"

In 2009, Charlie switched himself back to offensive coordinator, promoted Tenuta to defensive coordinator and put Polian back in charge of special teams.

In other words, since 2006, every part of the team has been in some sort of disarray.

And it's not the talent. That excuse died. On a weighted basis, Notre Dame has more four and five star upperclassmen than Florida did last year. That orange line to the left was Florida's star average weighted by class year... when Meyer won a national championship. The blue line is Notre Dame.

Yet, even with a big talent advantage Notre Dame still struggled with an under .500 Washington team, mediocre Michigan State and Purdue teams and lost to Navy and a Michigan team starting a twig of a freshmen quarterback with a second year head coach and far less talent.

This was supposed to be the year ND could make a run at a national title, instead the Irish will be fighting for a Gator Bowl berth... if that.

People talk about improvement, but the fact is that even if we win out we've simply flat-lined since Charlie got here. Improvement over your own crappy performance is an illusion. ND has standards and Charlie himself said 9-3 isn't good enough. Speaking of that, what’s more tortuous than anything is watching Charlie try to motivate this team. He purportedly used to motivate by threatening players draft status, now he’s tried to become a player’s coach who wants his team to show personality.

9-3 isn’t good enough.

Dive right in.

No talk, let your actions speak ... or whatever it is this year.

Again, clueless. Throwing darts.

Charlie tried. He made his bucket list and went after it, but trying isn’t working at all.

Talking hasn’t worked either and Charlie’s proven himself a bit of an exaggerator, which is fine if you back it up.

He hasn't.

We listen to Charlie talk about “pounding the ball” only to send our linemen off square dancing. He talks about toughness and nasty, yet Notre Dame continually loses the battle in the trenches. He talked about “putting 50” up on the board, but we’ve never done it. He talked about 9-3 not being good enough, yet we’re 6-3 heading to who knows what.

“Charlie ball” hasn’t worked well since 2005.

We’ve waited five years for Charlie to figure this out and he just doesn’t know and worse, he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.

On top of that, Weis’s demeanor and public actions alienated the ND fan base from the start, making his internal support non-existent. Why a coach making Weis’s money would pursue a public lawsuit for 600k that drags Notre Dame through the media grinder is puzzling to me as was the decision to do “60 minutes” without telling the University and not coming off well.

To be sure, Charlie has done many good things as well. From pass right to small notes to those struggling, he's shown he has a heart and cares about people. Of course, along with that are countless stories of mistreatment which can be hard to reconcile.

Regardless, Weis has become a lame duck now. Weis made some poor decisions out of the blocks and now we’re faced with a tough decision.

It’s one that has to be swift but sure.

What has to be done eventually, must be done immediately.

Charlie has to step aside and Notre Dame needs to find a home run; someone who’s done it before. In executive recruiting for 300k jobs, it’s essential that you find someone who’s actually done the pieces of the job you’re recruiting for. No one hires a high level executive without checking the right boxes. Yet at Notre Dame, with a head coach position worth 10x that, we still are hiring offensive coordinators, defensive coordinators and coaches that haven’t proven themselves.

Such willful negligence would be grounds for removing the board in many companies. In fact, most companies.

To be sure, it's worked for some schools, but that’s more by luck than design. Bama, Texas, Oklahoma and USC all floundered around before getting wheel of fortune to work.

Weis can leave with a lot of money and the knowledge that he’s got this team on the right track as far as talent goes. He will not leave it in the abyss Willingham did and hopefully will leave with more dignity.

Notre Dame needs someone who knows what they’re doing.

The players deserve it. They didn’t come here for this.

Tradition demands it.

On-the-job training is over.

~ The Rock
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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Too strong of language. Too many conclusions. Too many absolutes.

Not enough evidence.

I agree with your overall point, but not with the messaing.

11/10/2009 12:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Leave the gun, take the canolis.

11/10/2009 12:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In any relationship, knowing it is over is a difficult thing. Wanting it to work blinds you to the fact that it isn't working. I had the same feeling when I was on campus at the end of the Faust era - finally deciding that it is not enough to have a coach who loves the University of Notre Dame as much as I do. It has taken a great deal to get me to this point, but I am there. The right change is needed. My prayers are with the administration to make the right change.

11/10/2009 12:29:00 AM  
Blogger Dekom said...

What more evidence would you like? It is far easier to enumerate the new record lows recorded under CW's watch than to name the signature wins.

11/10/2009 12:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Cathedral Oaks said...

You sunk my battleship!

11/10/2009 01:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was totally on the fence about Weis. I would always ask myself if the pros outweighed the cons in the big picture. Was all of this stuttering and floundering just a natural progression from bad to good or was there a bigger problem underneath it all?

I think those questions were answered in spades on Saturday. A team with this much talent and big play ability can't even put up a single point in the first half and has more turnovers in one game than it has had in the entire rest of the season. Notre Dame simply was outplayed in every facet of the game and Navy's kids wanted it a whole hell of a lot more.

And with all of the talent on the Notre Dame team, all of these problems fall directly in Weis's lap. He must go. Charlie, you pointed us in the right direction and thank you for that, but it's time for you to step down and let someone else turn this team into the elite program it once was because it's become blatantly obvious that you are unable to do it.

11/10/2009 04:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

instead of crusifing the Head coach at ND why don't we lend him our support I come from a high school that has Had at least four different Head Football coaching chnages it is demoraling to the players and it doesn't help when no one cares maybe we should all start to care not about when Charlie will leave but he will do and what he has done as the Head Coach at ND I love the Irish and the Colts so when I say all this I want to Quote Coach Tony Dung "people say when something goes worng we have to change but I don't change I just do what I do but I do it better than anyone esle."

11/10/2009 08:13:00 AM  
Anonymous dbldomer7375 said...

"Think about that: Two years in a row with an offense that couldn't manage 20 yards a game on average during the regular season. "

Don't you mean points?

11/10/2009 08:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Jim Kress said...

We won't get to 9 and 3 this year.

We will lose to Pitt (they have a VERY good team).

UConn has a decent team which has had a few bad breaks and really should have a better record. That game will be a toss-up.

Stanford will crush us.

Stanford has never forgiven Charlie for putting Tom Zibikowski into the game as QB, a few years ago. They thought that we were trying to humiliate and embarrass them and still hold a grudge against us for that episode. We will be playing a highly motivated, very physical (and athletic) Stanford team which will be looking for revenge on every play.

So, at best we'll get to 7 and 5. At worst, 6 and 6.

11/10/2009 08:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rock, good points. With a lot of your typos and errors, looks like you are having some "On-the-Job Training" as well.

11/10/2009 08:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like most ND fans have rooted for Charlie. He has done a nice job recruiting but any good coach can recruit players at ND. Charlie must go after this season. His lack of head coaching experience is now very obvious. We need a "head coach" someone who can motivate, will bench a player for underforming, etc. ND pays their coach allot of money and we deserve the best. The players deserve the best and we do not have that.

11/10/2009 08:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right on!!!!!

11/10/2009 08:59:00 AM  
Anonymous OderName said...

It's time. I agree with your conclusion, and you are obviously making a case here, not objectively weighing the good versus the bad.

I really liked Charlie and still do. I wanted him to succeed almost as much as I wanted ND to win. Unfortunately it's now clear that this will never be the case. To Charlie's credit, unlike his predecessors, it was not a lack of effort or a lack of caring that is his downfall. The program is in infinitely better shape than when he got here (though admittedly the bar was pretty low). Recruiting is solid, facilities are top notch and the players are better coached and motivated. That said I agree that we've plateaued and Charlie needs to go.

For those parts of his character which are questioned in the article, I respond with Pass Right, taking his son to the USC locker room in 05, Hannah and Friends, honoring the commitment and sacrafice of the student-athlete-soldiers of the service academies, etc. Charlie's a class act and is one of us, a Domer, and I thank him for his effort and dedication and wish him well, but I finally agree that it's time for a change.

11/10/2009 09:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All these people are calling for Charlie's head and asking for THE COACH that will take us to the promised land. If I do recall, our last two coaching changes resulted in us taking our 5th choice as the elite coaches wanted no part of ND. What makes you think anything is different this time around. At this point, I would rather see Charlie stick around for another year with all the offense guys he has assembled. I think we would just be wasting Clausen, Tate, Floyd et al by bringing in a new coach who will have all of about 20-30 practices to get these guys on the same page in a new offense. Sorry, but I am all for Charlie riding this offense until Clausen leaves, and if we don't make the NC game next year--Charlie goes because we will be starting over anyway.

11/10/2009 09:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie is not a big picture leader, he is a technician/expert type. He refuses to delegate because he doesn't know how to effectively play the role of leader, he is more comfortable taking on the detailed tasks himself (see taking over special teams, going to the 3-4 because it was a system he knew better, taking play calling back, etc.). When Charlie boasts about coming into the office at 4:30 AM he thinks this is an indicator of success when in reality it highlights his failure. He is bogged down in details and scheming on the offensive side of the ball to the detriment of the defense, fundamentals, and player motivation/development.

Charlie is a very good QB coach and offensive coordinator. He has a high degree of expertise in these areas. Unfortunately because of his expertise in these areas he has been unable to let them go and truly become a head coach.

11/10/2009 09:49:00 AM  
Blogger Cap1 said...

Anchors away! Losing 2 of 3 to Navy in the last 3 games is unacceptable!!!! Time for new blood. I say let them all go after the debacle (2009) is over or maybe schedule San Deigo St and Western Michigan next year so they get their record up to 8-4.

11/10/2009 09:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quinn passes the ball and it bounces off his future NFL TE and is returned for a TD against Mich. on opening drive. The same year a preseason AA drops 2 3rd down passes on back to back series against SC that would have been 1st downs to open up the game. This was on a team that was preseason #1 or 2 in every poll. That was 2006. We forget so quickly. Weis has truly had one horrible season. 2007 snuck up on him because of inexperience with developing players. I argue that this is truly Weis's 2nd year has a COLLEGE head coach. His 1st 2years he had Jr. Sr. teams that he only had to scheme like in the NFL. This TRICKED him and got him his 3rd year. So throw 3rd year out the window. I argue that last year was his 1st true year as a college coach. (This is what we get for hiring someone with no experience.)With this being said, I think he is right on schedule. Average last year. Okay this year. Great next year. Don't give up to soon. Or we start ALL over again. Another thing, Navy is not that bad. They should have beat OHIO STATE and played Pitt. very tough. They got caught looking ahead against Temple. If you look at our schedule and record and Ohio St. they look pretty similiar. No one's calling for Tressels head.

11/10/2009 10:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What was it that Kevin White said when Willingham was let go? "He was great Sunday through Friday?" Weis has done some great things at a personal level, and has proven to be a solid recruiter, but he is awful on Saturday. If that was good enough to let Ty go then it should be enough to send CW packing...

11/10/2009 10:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When will someone call out the players on the field... the coaches aren't the ones throwing balls into the backs of their receivers... fumbling balls after soft hits... slipping off tackles again and again.

You can show a player how to run a play, but if they can't execute that play I guess it's the coach's fault.

In the modern day sports arena coach = scapegoat.

11/10/2009 10:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with your "Let's Start on Defense" section. The turnover of coordinators is also an indication of someone who is panicky or has no discipline to stay the course. On the other hand, ND has stayed the course for five years. Half a decade for a coach is more than enough for him to show some semblance of year-over-year improvement (see Urban Meyer, Lou Holtz, Nick Saban, Brian Kelly, Ara, Pete Carroll). In stead, CW's first two teams have been his best and we have gotten worse since. CW has had a fair shake and does not seem to be going in the right direction. I feel for him. I'm sure that he is a good person and I hope that Hannah and Friends remains a part of the University. But, I think the fact sheet and common sense indicate that things are not going well. We need a college head coach with a successful track record. I think it is also worth noting that USC stunk and was irrelevant for 20 years before Pete Carroll.

11/10/2009 10:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Programmed mediocrity is the current state of both the men's football and basketball programs. By that I mean 35-50 national ranking and slightly above .500 winning percentages. NBA teams stuck in this morass take years to make the jump to the next level. What needs to be done is to blow it up and start from scratch. This, of course, is not an option with the somewhat delusional, living in the past fan base. Maybe a good source of what needs to be done from the inside is Muffett. She seems to know how to remain highly competitive year in and year out. She is also an elite recruiter who sells her building out and has strong local support. If you live in SB you understand that the loyalty of her fan base is unsurpassed by any program at ND. I'm just saying..........

11/10/2009 10:31:00 AM  
Blogger Cap1 said...

Charlie does not do a good job on Saturdays period. His record shows it and that is all the proof needed for the University to say Adios Charlie. Losing to Syracuse last year was a total debacle and Navy with it's option made the defense look like elemantary school kids. N.D. enormously outweighed and had better players than both teams on a grand scale! Recruiting is one thing but having the plan work on Saturdays is another...and I mean on BOTH sides of the ball. The DEFENSE has been pathetic to say the least. Holding Nevada and Washington St. down is not going to cut it when the other 7 opponents are kicking your defense's butt! It all goes back to Charlie....sorry he gets paid the big bucks and 7-5 records just don't make the grade at the holy grail of College Football.

11/10/2009 10:32:00 AM  
Blogger Ryan said...

Yeah, he lost to Navy and we're all pissed. I still don't think it's the time to reach conclusions about Charlie just yet, though. Does anyone really think he should be fired right now, before the season ends? If he finishes 9-3 and wins a bowl game, I say keep him. 10-3 with a decent bowl win would be pretty good progress for a team that's been mediocre since 1993. Sorry to have lowered expectations, but that's the boat we're in, and we've been in it for quite some time. If this Navy win is the beginning of another late season collapse a la 2008, though, yes, I think that would show Charlie needs to go.

11/10/2009 10:34:00 AM  
Blogger The Rock said...

This is not a response to Navy. 75% of this article was written last year. Charlie's stumbling and bumbling around... every time he fixes one thing, another thing breaks. He has no idea how to manage a team.

11/10/2009 10:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Santa Barbara Irish said...

I believe a lot of fans really want Charlie to be the guy eventhough he's rubbed some people the wrong way. I know I have been pulling for him. But I think that we have to come to terms with the fact that he's the guy that has made this team good but not great. ND demands greatness in all aspects from Academics to Athletics.

Yes we've had to settle for fifth choice is past coaching searches but I have to believe that this year is different. ND is a challenging place to coach but this time around is stacked with talent that a good coach could come in and win with immediately.

It's never an ideal time to make a coaching change but we can't use that as an excuse.

Go Irish!

11/10/2009 10:48:00 AM  
Blogger John said...

I get that everyone thinks Charlie needs to go, but who will replace him? Lots of people say we need someone proven, but who? Brian Kelly? Can he win with ND standards (see Dan Hawkins, Boise -> Big 12)? Let's not forget that he won (LOTS) at DII Grand Valley with JuCo transfers, Big 10 rejects and academically under performing stude athletes from all over. Then he went to CMU, had success, but again, look at who he could get in. Now he is at Cinci, do I even need to mention their 'standards'? I love BK, but he was the call 5 years ago, not now.

Bob Stoops, Urban, etc are not walking though the door anytime soon. Who do we get if Charlie goes. Do not mention Gruden, who has been ruining his rep one day at a time since his super bowl win. I cannot go through another 'rebuilding' process with another head coach.

11/10/2009 11:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quite Calling for Weis head coaching changes are never good Look ND hasn't won a NC in what 22-23 years I love the Irish to death I'm only 19 years old yes Charlie has made mistakes but look on the bright side the Cubs haven't won a Championship in over 100 years things could be worse It took tongy dungy 5 years with the Colts and Peyton Manning to win the super Bowl Just because we haven't won one yet doesn't mean we won't under Weis I believe we will the Irish are going in the right way under Weis

Charlie I believe in you just remember keep doing what your doing just do it better than anyone esle


11/10/2009 11:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"on-the-job training is over" -- not if we hire Gruden!

11/10/2009 11:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's a simple prognostication, I know, but probably true: Watch the team. If they give up on Coach Weiss, it will be evident. If that happens, Jack will know what to do. In fact, Coach Weiss will know what to do, for he loves ND as do the rest of us. Just watch.

11/10/2009 11:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a very poor post. The fact is that you have every right to be disappointed, but you have no right to expect a national title team. People are going to of course accuse me of lowered expectations - but the issue is more about reality. There is no reasonable justification for expecting this to be a title contending team given the last 15 years of history. The expectation should be sustained progress - which will naturally bring us to a point where a national title is a reasonable expectation. This team is much improved over last and that team was an improvement over the previous one.
That said, many of the arguments you have against Weis have lurking variables you don't address or you flat out contradict yourself. Case in point, when the team hit rock bottom 3 years ago - that was in large part due to Willingham's poor recruiting (he did the same thing to Stanford before he left). Yet, you heap this result on Weis but acknowledge later that Willingham left the program in disrepair. Moreover, during that year, you argue that Weis should have ran the ball more. With an offensive line that bad you think we should have ran more? The only chance we had at being competitive was to pass. Moreover, the way Weis handled that season most likely plays a big role in why we now have the best quarterback in the country. As another example, you impugn his first two recruiting classes but fail to acknowledge he was holding down a position with the Patriots when he was executing his first recruiting class.
As for all the statistics you put up ... how many of these result from inheriting a team that was trending heavily downward? How about getting off the bowl game skid? How about getting over BC and Michigan State? How about Weis has put a team on the field this year that has gone from being dominated to ultra competitive (teams have given us a run for our money but there isn't a single team we played this year that anyone can make an argument is better than us ... may have won the game but no one has beaten us convincingly). This type of conciliation isn't what people want, but relative to last year it is sustained improvement. If we keep cutting off the legs of every coach that comes in here the program isn't going to get better ... only worse.
That said, I do agree that Weis has to finish off the year in convincing fashion. This team is improved relative to this time last year ... but he needs to convince people that this team is better at the end of the year.
As a final point, you want to bring in some miracle worker coach to fix everything ... you better damn well hold your tongue the first two years if you get your wish. I promise you that the team will take a step back or two given the transition.

11/10/2009 11:26:00 AM  
Anonymous DC Irish '69 said...

"No one's calling for Tressels head." Read any tOSU message board; my best friends are OSU grads and fans and they are speaking that language.

"You can show a player how to run a play, but if they can't execute that play I guess it's the coach's fault." That's the whole point -- Charlie has no idea how to show anyone but a QB what to do and won't let anyone else either because he's the HC. Do you think it's Tentua's idea to play soft zone with DBs who are man-to-man cover guys? Charlie saw it somewhere and said "do it."

2009 will be 6-6 (no bowl -- I'm sure not sending my form bowl ticket order form back -- I love that it has a spot to order BCS Championship tickets -- glad the athletic dept believes in satire). 2010 -- 4-8 tops if CW is HC.

11/10/2009 11:34:00 AM  
Anonymous James said...

Dear Mr. Rock, I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts over the last several years, and you are usually right on target. I have to disagree with you, however, in your assessment of our talent. You and others continue to use the 4-5 star ratings system as a barometer of the talent level and this method is incomplete at best and totally biased at worst.

How about if you judge our talent by picking the 11 best players on each side for each of our games (I made similar posts this week).

I pick a majority of our players against Nevada and Wash State, but a minority of them in each of the other games. I pick JC and maybe GT in the USC game and the rest are Southern Cal guys! If you do this every week, you cannot possibly pick any of our offensive linemen, nor almost anybody on defense. How much more 'faked out' could our linebackers have been last saturday?

I firmly believe that our talent level is mediocre at best. Some of these guys may be able to run and jump, but they are either not football players who can react to a play or they are receiving the worst coaching in the history of football.

One guy posted that we have 15 NFL players on the current roster. I can't imagine anybody making it other than JC, MF, KR, maybe GT and AA, and then maybe some younger guys who will develop (Like MT or DC).

I am so tired of losing and I am equally tired of our unsportsman-like behavior. Somebody should tell these guys they have done nothing that warrants a celebration, and even if they start winning, they should act like men and not little girls dancing around their jump ropes.

CW is the biggest problem and he must go.

I am going to the Pitt game, and I have no confidence that we can win.

Go Irish.

11/10/2009 11:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

He. Doesn't. Have. Their. Respect.

LOT of wayward points here but completely misses the boat.

Did you see Olsen - 4 personal fouls in 4 games? - walk-off, right past Charlie and not even look in his direction as Charlie was scolding him?

Lou would have had that oft-penalized, long-haired ass clown by the neck.

The kids don't respect him. Too much talk, too little backing-up.

At least the sidelines will appear less crowded next year...

11/10/2009 11:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie allows talent to become hot dog displays Team lacks discipline and good coaching. time for a change

11/10/2009 11:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

enough about the coach he is the problem of the administration..
The players are the one who really count. They are talented and they they hope to accomplish a miracle, which is to win the next three games. I have five grandsons in their age group and this age group are unbelievable. They have the talent an they have the will to win. And after 69 years of watching notre dame football teams, I think they will do it. You the players are our team. GO Irish.

11/10/2009 12:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Coach Weis has done an unreal job in many aspects with returning ND Football back with the upper echelon teams in this country. People seem to forget the enormous gaps left in the program by the Davie and Willingham disasters. These two absolutely destroyed the mystique of ND football. It takes time to restore a program when you're 5 to 6 YEARS behind teams like FL, TX, AL, OSU, USC, LSU, etc. in recruiting. Coach Weis has people talking again about ND in a positive way - we're on the right track to getting back to greatness. At the start of this season national media was actually discussing the possibility of ND playing for a National Championship! Coach brought in that talent and has some of the most prolific players in the country right now - and more coming in. ND is very close to the depth that FL, USC and OSU have enjoyed for years. They don't re-cruit they re-load.

Now for the reality check. The problem for ND is those players are offensive players, not defensive - everyone knows defense wins championships. ND will NEVER have an elite defensive unit due to the strict academic requirements for admission. The last time I checked, a degree from the University of Notre Dame will carry you a hell of lot further in life than one from LSU! The question all ND fans need to ask themselves is "What do we really want?". Do we want the University to keep it's reputation as one of the finest institutions of higher learning in the world? Or, do we want to dumb everything down for a 12-0 football season? I am a lifelong ND football fan, but am also a realist. Academics will always be the priority and, because of this, it really doesn't matter who the coach is. Sure, ND will continue to field quality, competitive athletes, but it may be time for the fans to lower the expectations. One final point, everybody now seems to be calling for Weis to go with more fervor than ever. I ask you this - Who do you think the University will be able to get as a replacement? Because of the admissions requirements, top tier proven head coaches know without a doubt they won't be able to get the athletes they need to not only be competitive, but win.

11/10/2009 12:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look, I appreciate the analysis, but really, doesn't it simply boil down to wins and losses? Coach Weis is not getting it done on the field and his team is unraveling internally. Not good.

No change will be made by the administration until the end of the year. The really really sad reality is that most fans are probably pulling for ND to lose 2 of their 4 to ensure Weis is dismissed. I admit I fall into that category.

Brian Kelly is the answer. The guy has charisma, passion, great rapport with the kids, coaches from the sidelines (read: actually gets in kids' faces) and the students, alumni and school officials will love the guy.

11/10/2009 12:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of you computer-savy Alums needs to start circulating a fire-Weis petition that the Alums can sign electronically, with the goal of presenting the petition to Jenkins and the Athletic Director. Without pressure from Alums, the Administration will likely do nothing about Weis.

11/10/2009 12:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Forgetting for a moment how well this article was written, it still spoke volumes - in objective terms, Charlie is an average coach (35 - 25), with no clear path to consistently high levels of performance. At $4 million a year, we shouldn't expect average performance. There are 20 coaches who could have taken what Weis was given in December 2004 and done equally as "well" if not better without the cult of personality that reflects badly on ND.

To those who say we if can't get Stoops, Meyer, Saban, then we should stay with Charlie, I ask why?? It isn't as if he is the next Tier coach down - he isn't even close. Again we could hire an above average coach without his BS and drama. I can't understand all this nonsense about how Charlie "gets it" and "he's one of us". There are many coaches who do great, non-football activities behind the scene without launching a PR campaign behind it.

He has not had an offense equal to his rep, underperforming defenses and special teams and a management style that is strange at best and disturbing most of the time (his halftime interviews on NBC). He speaks "best" when talking about himself and is highly unintelligible when speaking about anything else.

He has never risen to the occasion on the field of play, an expectation we always place on ND coaches. He doesn't need another 5 years to get everything "in place". Every coach deals with unexpected/unexpalined events - goes with the territory. No excuses!

11/10/2009 12:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Mark Stuart "subway alum" said...

analysis shmanalysis..... Mike Coffey had it right. toughness is what I grew up on and I saw that the very first time in September 1986 when Lou Holtz took on Bo and barely lost that game. they key was you could hear the helmets clattering and the players leaving everything on the field. That comes from players that respect their coaches and are willing to do anything for them. I was in the LA Coliseum in 1988 and I saw Lou ship out his stars, Tony Brooks and Ricky Waters, for being jerks and he walked out on that field with over-achievers and they whooped the super stars from tinseltown. I was ready to run out on that field to strap on a helmet. Lou cleaned their clock and laughed his way back on the plane to south bend.
I look at the sideline now and I see this person with a constant grimace on his face. Selling and coaching are two different things. Charlie is a self-centered guy that can make a good sales pitch. Give me Lou who will grab a kid by the collar and show him how to block and whip up his energy.

Lastly, I went to the USC game a few weeks ago. it was the first time I was at Rockne's hallowed field since 1985. While it was special to be there you could just sense that ND was over matched before the kickoff. That is not the Notre Dame spirit I was raised on.

enough is enough and when will someone in the AD show some mental toughness and make the decision that is required right now? moral fortitude is what is expected of Notre Dame and I don't see it.

11/10/2009 12:35:00 PM  
Blogger The Rock said...

Is anyone really arguing that Navy and Michigan have more or equal talent than ND?

What about Purdue, Michigan State and Washington?

ND has far more talent than all of the above schools right now, yet each game came down the the wire and Notre Dame lost two of them.

The difference is coaching. There is no other justification. Just as there was no reason for the horrible el foldo last year against Syracuse and the blowout to BC. That doesn't happen to well-coached teams.

The ND/USC game wasn't close until the end and was dominated by USC most of the game. Even a miracle comeback would have just meant overtime. And this is a mediocre USC team.

11/10/2009 01:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


This is the best analysis I've seen yet. Kelly is definitely the guy, folks. The Irish need an unofficial deal with Kelly BEFORE they fire Coach Weis.

11/10/2009 01:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Complain all you want but be fair about it.....you can't possibly say that Charlie's first two years were abysmal to mediocre. Why? First of all, 2005 wasn't his FIRST year of recruiting....it was TY'S LAST year. And,yes, that WAS abysmal. Secondly, Rivals ranked the 2006 class 8th.(which WAS Charlie's first year) so it may have turned out to be mediocre, but it wasn't so at the time.

11/10/2009 02:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie Weis has been costing the university more and more money. For those of you "hoping for change," wake up! On the other hand . . .

The CW Era may just be part of the administration's new "Tradition Light Plan." (TLP) If so, Charlie is perfect for the job! And there will be benefits!

In a couple more years, you will be able to buy great seats on game day, at NO MORE than face value. Probably less. It's all part of the ever-growing national "Redistribution of Wealth Program." What ND loses in contributions will be more than offset by government subsidies; good news for the great, unwashed cash-pressed fan base who will finally be able to afford tickets!

There will eventually be more MAC and WAC games on the schedule, and - just for the fun of it - they'll be the occasional SWAC opponent, too! And with "TLP" firmly in place, the game will be a nail-biter!

Then, one bright fall day, when the leaves are changing on campus (how pretty!) and the Dome is glowing in blinding sun, it will be announced that Notre Dame is joining the IVY LEAGUE! (For astute alums and fans, those suspicious SWAC games will be telltale proof that something is up! Not to worry, though. Mike Coffey will be on top of it, and there will be fair warning months in advance!) Finally, "The Plan" will be complete!

After another contract extension, Charlie Weis will step down in 2020. He will be known as the "Great Transitional Coach." (GTC) And Charlie, Jr. will officially, at long last, take his place on the field, and in the hearts of all loyal followers.

Before the first game every season, the team will continue to get together with Charlie (or Charlie) and watch "Rudy." And, afterward, the players will all share stories about how "Rudy" inspired each of them. And they'll cry.

And on one late November day in 2021, Charlie, Jr. will calmly explain how the Irish just lost by 4 touchdowns to Cornell. And why a 4-3 conference record is just not good enough.



11/10/2009 02:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sadly I agree its time for someone new. Although if Jimmy and Golden come back, it'd be fun to see if they, with Charlie at the wheel, could win big next year. Remember, this offense has blossemed from last season, so its conceivable this team, with Jimmy and Golden and that defense having another year under its belt, could be the team we've been praying for. And at the end of the day, that's Charlie's team.

11/10/2009 02:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have said since day one CW problem is that CW has no clue how to surround himself with the "right" people. CW can never be wrong and this huge fat jo even said in his presser that quote"I never ever change". The funny thing is that finally a player broke from the company line and look what happened to Ian, thrown under the CW bus and guess what CW backed up over him. CW is never wrong. Hey Charlie go f yourself even domer grads are wrong to bad the light has been shined!

11/10/2009 02:40:00 PM  
Blogger The Rock said...

Either his second class was mediocre or Charlie was worse than mediocre at developing them...

Which is more damning?

The number of players who transferred or never contributed is pretty startling.

So is it recruiting or development?

11/10/2009 02:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it's baffling to read that some think CW should not go because either he needs more time or we might not get a great replacement.

5 years is plenty. he has all the talent he wanted. we have played only 2 teams that have players that ND would even consider offering scholarships to - Michigan and USC - and we lost. four of the six wins were toss-ups against inferior talent. it's the coaching. hoping after five years that it'll get better next year (most likely without Clausen, who would be crazy to risk injury behind an o-line that does not inspire confidence and will be graduating some starters)is contrary to all the evidence. how many coaches have had worse teams in their 3d thru 5th years than their first 2, and then got better?

as far as the replacement, all we need at this point is competence. that might not get us into the top 5 in the polls each year, but it will get us into the top 20. I think the administration did it the right way last time (contrary to the fiascos orchestrated by Fr. Malloy), it just hasn't worked. no big deal. try again. if it's broke, fix it.

11/10/2009 02:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Many commentators do not know the University of Notre Dame. I would be surprised if Charlie is fired -- this year or next. His hiring came in a panic after the program was on the fast track to oblivion during the Willingham regime. He was hired by the new president, Fr. Jenkins, with the help of Trustee Philip Purcell after being turned down by Urban Meyer. It was one more hiring fiasco by the university. Since then, Jenkins suffered another huge PR disaster earlier by giving the pro-choice President Barak Obama an honorary degree. In between the hiring of Charlie and the honoring of Obama was his support for a gay film festival on campus, as well as performances of the pornographic "Vagina Monologues." He does not want another PR problem of this magnitude any time soon. Some might say that the team's performance is already a problem for him. But he's a stubborn man who is ready to suffer the slings and arrows of outraged ND football groupies for a while longer. The university's top goal, dating back to Fr. Hesburgh's time, has been to turn Notre Dame into a nationally respected university -- even if it has to compromise its Catholic heritage. As to the football program, there is a conceit that it be a Stanford or a Northwestern and still rank among the elite football programs in the nation. Like its attempt to be an elite research university and still be Catholic, this is a fool's errand. So Charlie isn't going anywhere.

11/10/2009 04:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The third to the last line is the most important reason why there needs to be a change of head coach. "The players did not come here for this."

11/10/2009 04:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I see another fade route into the endzone I'm going to puke. There is no offensive genius shown in the predictable Irish offense. It's Groundhog Day every Saturday.

11/10/2009 04:25:00 PM  
Blogger erirot19 said...

I have defended Weis sense he got here but no longer. ND can do better on both sides of the ball and we need a coach who is emotional u look at our side lines and Weis pretty much lookes the same way no matter what. Other college coachs? They get emotional and they fire up their teams. Its time to move on.

11/10/2009 04:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the hiring of CW didn't appear to be a fiasco to me. we needed a new coach and looked for who was out there. CW was getting a big time head coaching job somewhere. Urban Myer either didn't want it or wanted too much. we took a chance. it didn't work. time to move on. USC and Texas rebuilt after years of oblivion. Cinci was built from scratch. no big deal.

i don't see how firing CW could be a PR problem. he's had five years and he's very rich, and not a minority.

as for Hesburgh, he sure didn't have a problem letting the AD hire a good head coach. and he also seemed to realize that letting in 85 guys who might not otherwise have high enough SAT scores would not hurt the academic scene at all.

11/10/2009 05:11:00 PM  
Blogger Clay said...

Still, I’ll play devil's advocate. If Weis leaves, Clausen is sure to leave as well (he's probably going to leave anyway, but he's certain to forego coming back only to help a new coach transition), and the recruiting class will fall apart. If Weis wins out and brings in a good recruiting class, the cupboard will be full for the next guy. Fire him now and this recruiting class falls apart, which gives us back to back average recruiting classes, which can be devastating to a program. Weis hasn't gotten the job done and is unlikely to succeed. But at this point, letting him play caretaker for another year may not be the worst thing. While you clamor for a home run coaching hire, I haven’t heard you or anyone else mention who fits that bill.

Clay Cosse

11/10/2009 05:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

so wait a year and we're right here next year. what's the point of waiting? if he wins out, that's another story. if he doesn't, this recruiting class probably falls apart. even if it doesn't, we're still in the same place 1 year later.

11/10/2009 05:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous @4:04pm:

What's wrong with you? Of course, Notre Dame is a "Catholic" university! Haven't you been watching the "What Would You Fight For?" TV ad campaign? My God!

Seriously, well said. The Rev. Mr. Jenkins is costing the university some big dollars. And it's just not because of the incompetent Mr. Weis. That's a short-term problem. There are other, more serious, longer-term problems. And, yes, Jenkins had a hand in all of them.

11/10/2009 05:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Still, I’ll play devil's advocate. If Weis leaves, Clausen is sure to leave as well (he's probably going to leave anyway, but he's certain to forego coming back only to help a new coach transition), and the recruiting class will fall apart. If Weis wins out and brings in a good recruiting class, the cupboard will be full for the next guy. Fire him now and this recruiting class falls apart, which gives us back to back average recruiting classes, which can be devastating to a program. Weis hasn't gotten the job done and is unlikely to succeed. But at this point, letting him play caretaker for another year may not be the worst thing. While you clamor for a home run coaching hire, I haven’t heard you or anyone else mention who fits that bill."

Clay - Wake up and smell the shamrocks!!! Brian Kelly fits the bill perfectly. Here's the analysis:


As the article points out, if something is inevitable, do it immediately. Charlie is D.O.A.
The Irish will not lose a single recruit if Kelly is hired, and is likely to get a bunch of transfers from Cincinnati, like their QB Collaros, who makes Clausen look like Rick Schlagel. And the N.D. D, except for McCarthy, the coach's pet, will break out the hampagne the day Weis' demise is announced.

11/10/2009 06:26:00 PM  
Blogger The Rock said...

No one thinks Clausen is staying with or without Weis.

So now we're back to Weis with an unproven quarterback behind an offensive line with three new starters.

Crist and his "loose knees" as he calls them are no guarantee of even last year's QB performance. If he goes down, you've got two okayish touted true freshmen.

Next year will not be pretty.

11/10/2009 06:40:00 PM  
Blogger al said...

If Weis goes than so does clausen and golden. So does a national championship and heisman hunt next year, and so does a recruiting class that is looking very strong. Then with Clausen gone we have Christ, (who is good) with a bum knee and a true freshman quarterback(granted they dont decide to decommit). And thats's if Christ is even able to go,, reports say the earliest is six months. If your Swarbrick you have to think this out. Possible National championship or start from scrath??? Listen to the mob or make a contraversial but educated desicion??? I vote these next three games should decide the future of Weis at Notre Dame. If he wins out and wins a bowl(granted not the one we wanted) then let him and Jimmy make a go at it next year!!! by the way,,, Jimmy Clausen didn't come to Notre Dame,, he went to South Bend to learn from Charlie Weis!!!

11/10/2009 06:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I personally think that Charlie has accomplished all he can at Notre Dame and should not be retained at the end of the season; however, I do think that a change will require losing one of the last three games. Firing a coach after a 9-3 season seems unreasonable upon first glance based on wins and losses alone. If a change is going to be made, then it must be made appropriately and steadfast. Go back to the abysmal job done during the last two coaching changes. In both situations the Irish failed to sign their first choice. The whole George O’Leary debacle forced the administration to settle for a mediocre hire in Tyrone Willingham and after Ty’s subsequent firing the administration once again failed to get their first choice in Urban Meyer and had to settle for Charlie Weis. If Jack Swarbrick is going to get rid of Weis he must be absolutely sure he can get a coach who can recruit at a high level, like Weis, and get the most out of that talent by putting the players in the best position to win. Otherwise, the Irish faithful will be once again have their high expectations crushed for another five years. That said I do believe there are a number of good coaches out there who could do a better job at this point.

11/10/2009 07:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it saddens me to see the state of the irish football program. the lack of any leadership from the head coach is inexuscable. when a football fan can set home and watch the irish on tv or in person at the stadium and call what will happen next on the feild is not a good sign. the lack of passion due to no visible motivation from the coach is obvious . when i saw the team come out of the tunnel at the navy game i swear it was like they just came out of the basicila. no inspired enthusiam to play the game. when something is broke it is time to fix it. love thee notre dame.

11/10/2009 07:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been a "Charlie apologist" and even after the Navy debacle am not quite off the bandwagon. I not for replacing Charlie unless we get a top flight coach who will have immediate impact i.e. a Bob Stoops or Urban Meyer. I don't want a middle tier coach like a Dan Hawkins (Brian Kelly)or a sexy NFL name (Jon Gruden) with no college experience. What upsets me the most about the Charlie tenure is the lack of nastiness (physicality)and need for such precison(finesse) for his offense to work. It is a disappointment that with all talent he has amassed we end up losing to Navy. Outside of the Nevada and WaSu games one was always holding ones breath on ND offense until they scored. There were no easy touchdowns. Always some sort of heroics were needed by Jimmy, Golden or Michael. There is no bread and butter play these guys can goto to get the necessary yards ie like a Tebow up the gut. Everything has to be some schematic tomfoolery. How can Navy sack the quarterback two times in a row when they are so physically outmanned at such a critical juncture. With that said unlike others I will continue to root for the Irish under Charlie until a better alternative is presented.

11/10/2009 07:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think with Christ as our quarterback next year, we will have a miraculous season!


11/10/2009 07:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I, as much as anyone, wanted Weis to thrive as a coach at ND, but there's been too many disturbing trends during his tenure to justify a 6th year. He's a great recruiter but an average head coach at best. Without Chuck, Clausen, Crist, Floyd, Sam Young, Ethan Johnson and a couple of others would be wearing the scarlet and gold of USC.

Still, the team has consistently underachieved and disappointed with all star talent. Things aren't likely to get any better in year 6 or 7. What we've seen is what we'll get which means 8-4 or 9-3 at best with a couple of mystifying losses (a la Navy and Syracuse), getting trounced by USC, and close wins over mediocre opponents.

A short list for the job would be:

1) Brian Kelley
2) Patterson @ TCU
3) Kyle Whittingham
4) Skip Holtz
5) Greg Schiano

ND would cramp Urban Meyer's style, so I left him off the list.

11/10/2009 09:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Firing a coach after a 9-3 season seems unreasonable upon first glance based on wins and losses alone. If Jack Swarbrick is going to get rid of Weis he must be absolutely sure he can get a coach who can recruit at a high level, like Weis, and get the most out of that talent by putting the players in the best position to win."

Look people, stop wallowing in your own insecurities. Stop talking about Dayne Crist. The kid is toast. Stop worrying about the recruits and realize these simple facts:

Brian Kelly has built winners at Grand Valley State, Central Michigan and Cincinnati.

Kelly's last two recruiting classes, for those of you in a coma, were ranked 60th and 44th by Rivals. Nevertheless, if the Bearcats run the table they will play the Gators for the National Championship.

The truly great college coaches actually coach from the sidelines.
They get in kids faces when they hit an opposing player out of bounds, taunt or do any stupid act suggesting they care more about themselves than their teammates.

The last coach I know who did that was Lou Holtz.

I don't care if Weis runs the table. He is not the guy any self-respecting Notre Dame student, alumni or administration official should want as the face of the university. Weis is a pompous, arrogant, over-rated coach who has no idea how to relate to college students.

Brian Kelly is the anti-Weis. I agree that a petition needs to be circulated NOW to remove Weis as head coach of this team.

Having said that, we all know what happened when a petition was circulated to prohibit a pro-abortionist from being the commencement speaker at this alleged Christian school. So we can all expect a similar result.

11/10/2009 09:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you have to be kidding me about the offense. they are in the top 5 passing yards and the top 10 total yards...Most of your article was about the offense, but the defense is what has cost us these games!!

i will get lambasted for saying this, but i want to see what is being said after we beat pitt this weekend. players will not be looking ahead because this is the best team we have faced all year. they will play with a chip on their shoulders and win by a field goal.
no we are not in the running for a NC this year, but the talent is there and once we settle on a D coordinator we will be solid and win a NC in the next 5 years.
Chill out and wait for charlie to lose another game, we still have a chance to turn the season around!

11/10/2009 09:53:00 PM  
Anonymous John Moore '69 said...

When Ara was hired, ND picked a coach who had beaten ND and impressed the administration and the AD. My candidate for Charlie's replacement is Georgia Tech's Paul Johnson. He won at Navy and he's winning now. I rest my case!

11/10/2009 10:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I told myself not to read these blogs, but did it anyway...so here it goes - those who called for a NC season are now calling for CW's head - he has brought talent to South Bend - he has a QB in the Heisman conversation - he has had his then top reciever injured and schemed GT into a monster - BACK OFF THE COACH - we are not quite there with tallent nor D coaching - CW is where the buck stops since he is the HC but he is not the problem but rather has brought many solutions and should not be fired!!! You so-caled-fans make me sick with the win every game or die mentality - if you want JUCO transfers and flunk out players cheer for Miami or UF - we play hard and play well but are still a few years away - a coaching change will solve nothing TODAY, and will likely put us back years...but the bad press is helping that cause by itself - you people want ND to play only top 20 teams and win every game by 17+...are you all insane? The D is lost, and that is on coaching, but that is not CW's coaching...it is his coach, and that should be where a chage should be made. GO IRISH!!! BEAT PITT!!! STAY CHARLIE!!!


11/10/2009 10:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So you think he should make his fourth defensive coordinator change in five years?

That's terrible head coaching and on Charlie. He wasn't hired to be an offensive coordinator... he's a head coach.

Charlie's offenses were terrible for two years and very good for three... that's not good enough.

Special teams have have spotty... at best. That's not good enough.

Above all, his record is terrible... among the worst in ND history against good teams.

Worse than Faust and Willingham.

11/10/2009 11:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie Boy Weiss needs to learn how to say things. He needs to learn how to walk. Some day he'll grow out of his blubber. Then the real charle boy will stand up. Fo shizz.

11/11/2009 12:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You mentioned the public lawsuit but you neglected to mention Bill Belichick’s cheating scandal a few years ago. When asked if the cheating took place while he was there, Weis refused to comment. To this day, he refuses to comment. Thus, the secret to his “genius” was discovered.

11/11/2009 12:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The defense won't be good until there are no more Smiths in the starting lineup. It doesn't matter who the coach is.

11/11/2009 12:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow...this is always fun to read...but the case is simple and Rock is correct...You are your record. In football, sales, you name it -- you are your record. ND plays flat in big games. They came close vs. Michigan and USC, but they lost. Period. They should have lost at Purdue. With all of the talent that he has, ANY loss is not acceptable...especially when it's North Carolina, Navy, Syracuse, etc.

As a football coach and former player who was recruited by 40+ schools, I will tell you that ND is a mediocre football team. Fundamentally, they look mediocre. I was at the USC game this year and they were LUCKY to get back in that game...It was my son's first trip to ND stadium and we were LUCKY that it was not a blow out. Charlie should have sent thank you cards to USC for letting him off the hook a bit.

And, at the USC game two years ago, ND did not get a FIRST DOWN until the third quarter! Are you kidding me? Anyone that wants to explain this away by dismissing his first few years (for whatever reason) is just not being honest with themselves...

They are great athletes but they lack emotion and a killer attitude.
They look sad. They play down to the level of competition they face. You never know which team will show up...These are all things that come from the head coach.

Charlie seems lost...and he won't wipe his friggin nose on the sideline during games...(now would you want to run through a brick wall for a guy that weighs 350 pounds and won't wipe his nose?)

They are constantly outschemed, outworked and outplayed. Sad but true...it's time to move on...it's time to move on...football teams are like sharks, they either move forward or they die...we are starting to float to the surface

11/11/2009 04:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do we really want Notre Dame to be just all about football or much more than that such as an esteemed institution, high academics, tradition and every kid's dream to attend? Don't get me wrong. Having a winning football team is great for school spirit but there's much more than that in the long history of the University of Notre Dame.

Charlie Weis is indeed one of us and he truly does love the university. Don't blame him for everything that goes wrong on Saturday.

11/11/2009 06:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wrote it yesterday, but got filtered...I'll say it again. It's the players first and foremost. Yes, they have talent, but lack the spark except when it seems critical. Point the fingers at them first. They miss tackles, they get man-handled by guards 40 pounds lighter, they miss assignments and allow passes to hit them in the back, they miss field goals, and then one of them blames the scheme. Based on what I've been reading that guy will make a good alum some day. Point fingers at others. If a student fails a class, blame the prof, right? Sheesh! I really am not a Weis apologist, but dang guys. When it comes to blocking and tackling, they know what to do by now....
For all the Weis critics, when ND was stopping Navy and moving the football late in the fourth quarter, what was Charlie Weis doing better? The answer: nothing. The players seemed to turn it up a notch. I suggest an intestinal fortitude problem on their part. (Please no comments about that being the coaches job. By now the players control that.)
Some of you guys sound like the whiney parents I would always have to listen to when coaching a summer select ball club. Always their High School coach's fault for their lack of performance!

11/11/2009 11:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The players said it was their fault last year too.

Do we wait on new players?

How winning coaches don't have this problem?

11/11/2009 11:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Going to stay anonymous here, my apologies, but I have it on good authority that Tony Dungy has been monitoring the ND situation since before the season started and should the position become available he would have great interest.

Whether you believe this tip or not (you should), Tony Dungy is an available and accomplished head coach that should at least be in the discussion of future replacements. He has name recognition, would bring instant credibility to our defense and passes the image/integrity test. As a bonus, Dungy's role as mentor to troubled athletes could give him some leeway with regards to admissions.

11/11/2009 11:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"not enough evidence"

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? What have you been watching the last 5 years? Weiss has NOT won a BIG game yet. 2 or 3 games this year we have had to win by a last-second, last play throw....

..it's been a bad decade & a half for the Irish & sadly it doesn't currently look like it's going to get any better...

teams used to fear playing ND.. .not now.. I heard a sound byte that the Navy players looked at this game like any other game. That's sad


11/11/2009 04:19:00 PM  
Blogger tehmaven said...

There is one flaw in your article towards the end about finding someone that has proven in the past. With the exception of Dan Davine, all other ND coaches that won national titles did not come from power house programs.

Ara was 36–35–1 at Northwestern
Holtz was 4-7 and 7-5 before coming to ND

Pre-Ara doesn't count as it was almost always ND players becoming coaches.

Great leadership is hard to find, looking for the "standout" great coach isn't easy. Pete Carroll didn't exactly tear things up in the NFL. ND needs a coach that can handle LOTS of pressure and keep football fun for the kids playing while instilling a hard work ethic and commitment to the team and ignoring the media as much as possible. ESPN (as it is today) and blogs like these didn't exactly exist when Holtz took the 88 team to a National title.

11/11/2009 05:50:00 PM  
Blogger roland said...

Let us assume Charlie is shown the door. The next coach does not need to be the messiah. All we need is a good coach. There are plenty of good coaches. If you coach at Cincinnati you need to be a wunderkind to win a national championship. The history of our program insures a certain talent.

11/11/2009 07:15:00 PM  
Blogger NDRoy said...

The defense of CW completely astounds me. He is clearly the problem. He does not have the players' respect, he seldom has them game ready, he is unable to adjust at halftime, on and one. What other coach in major college football can boast no signature win in his career. They've beat noone that matters.

I am an ND alum, a contributing alum no less, so I get the sentimental stuff about CW being a grad and wanting him to do well. So did I. And years have passed and we're going backward. I agree with the previous poster that cited the upcoming games. It pains me to realize we are going to lose at least 2 more games this season.

Give Charlie a job as an ND PR rep.

What coach is next? I don't know, but CW must go.

11/11/2009 07:24:00 PM  
Blogger John said...

Tenuta's national ranking on defense at Ga. Tech was:
2003‘ 32nd
2004 12
2005 10
2006 27
2007 20
What happened at ND? Did Tenuta just lose it or did CW forget to recruit defense? ND's blitzes don't at all look like the blitzes Ga Tech ran against ND when Tenuta was there.

11/11/2009 10:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For everyone who is not yet drinking the Brian Kelly Kool-Aid, tune in Friday night to see the Bearcats put a major beatdown on the Mountaineers. Carefully observe Kelly's level of engagement with his players and coaches and then tell me he is not the guy who should succeed Coach

11/12/2009 07:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is it too early for the student section to start sporting "Kelly's Heroes" tee shirts?

11/12/2009 08:29:00 AM  

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