National Championship aspirations
by vivaflanner (2021-11-01 15:02:50)

In the last 4 years, Georgia has signed 27 total top-50 recruits, Alabama has signed 24 and the Irish 3. Blake Fisher (who looks very promising), Jordan Johnson (who has 2 catches for UCF this season), and Houston Griffin (ok player, but nothing special).

It's not news to anyone who follows the team.

To me, this is actually Kelly's biggest weakness. He cant or wont land the very top players in any quantity at all. I actually think since 2017 he is producing quite well for his level of recruiting. But recruiting is a big part of the job.


Another difference between fat arse and those two coaches
by mustangman  (2021-11-01 18:43:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

is while all three have huge ego's, as do all coaches, fat arse is unwilling to hire the best possible coaches because he does not want to share the spotlight or headlines. While Saban and Smart realize hiring the best possible assistant coaches will make them look even better when their teams win, year in year out. And, nobody questions who is in charge at Alabama or Georgia.


His biggest weakness?
by BIG MAC  (2021-11-01 18:07:24)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

IMHP Sticking too long with flagrantly underperforming assistant coaches.


Kelly is shopping down a different aisle.
by BeastOfBourbon  (2021-11-01 16:25:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

One where he can feel comfortable wearing hair curlers and stretch pants.


Coach Freeman
by JNDH  (2021-11-01 17:52:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

There has been some negative comments about Coach Freeman after UNC. I fully understand the concern with the current defense. I would hope we can be patient with Freeman as I am very excited about his recruiting and I hope it pushes Kelly and the offensive coaches to keep up. If Weis could get a #1 class there is no reason our current group could not match that if they work at it. I'm hoping Freeman is that difference maker,


Freeman is coaching with players that...
by Fresno Mike  (2021-11-01 22:11:51)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...he didn't recruit. Let's see what he looks like in two or three years. If he is still here.


Holtz, Devine & Ara won titles with 3/4 they didn’t recruit
by btd  (2021-11-02 09:57:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Lea had an elite defense with those same players Freeman didn’t recruit. Never give a pass to any coach for failure to properly coach the players they currently have. History has shown no coach in ND history has been worth keeping that needed to have their own players. In fact, few have ever won a title with their own players - Holtz included.


Holtz won in 88, only the senior class were not his recruits *
by vivaflanner  (2021-11-02 14:59:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Kirby Smart said it best after the Florida game
by Pat85  (2021-11-01 15:25:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

"If you don't recruit, no coach is going to outcoach recruiting/talent." It may not be possible for ND to replicate what Saban has done, but Kelly and Swarbrick sure as hell have could have done more in the last 11 years to pursue that goal - recruiting being one of the areas where Kelly (and his staff) has not done enough.


To bolster this point here is some info
by JBrock18  (2021-11-02 11:53:53)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Forget who the messenger is for a moment and just take the facts for what they are. ND will not be elite until it recruits consistently as such.


Here's a bit more of it
by vivaflanner  (2021-11-01 20:36:54)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Guys,” Smart said before a brief pause. “If you don’t recruit, there’s no coach out there who can out-coach recruiting. I don’t care who you are. The best coach to ever (coach) the game better be a good recruiter because no coaching is going to out-coach players. Anyone will tell you our defense is good because we’ve got good players.

I think that shitty coaching can make a talented team play like crap, but I agree with smart, you cant take a bunch of average players and turn them into a great team.


Yep, Saban himself said something similar
by Irish2003  (2021-11-01 18:19:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I think it came up during the debate if an NFL or NCAA job is more attractive to a top coach, with the NFL jobs allowing them to focus on coaching vs. pitching the school to 17-18 year olds, the various rules (pre-NIL), no booster groups, etc. Saban mentioned something to the effect that at Miami he would get 1 first round pick a year and that was inversely correlated to the team's success, but in college, he could get the equivalent (4-5 stars) of 15-20 a year if he did his job well and that winning would in turn lead to further recruiting success. Fit and money are of course major issues too, and it is likely easier for a Belicheck to succeed in the NFL and Mack Brown in college, but just the playoff era alone seems to show the concentration of talent, especially with OSU and OU having first time coaches yet thriving.

As for ND, Saban casts a giant shadow that no one is matching, and the roster situation is something other schools have mentioned both with 5 stars backing up 5 stars, practices being as tough as most games, and the scholarship competition, but I also don't think we are that far off from everyone else (hopefully UGA is more like LSU than Alabama, but I fear they'll stay...). IMO, if our QBs (recruiting, development and scheme are a different thread altogether!) move from good to elite, we get the Hamiltons/JOKs on defense and Williams/Tyrees on offense at least every other year, and keep our traditional OL/TE strengths, we should be right there, although I'd still of course like to see us move more toward the top 5 rather than top 15 range.

I wonder how much longer Saban will stay as his retirement alone should help with recruiting parity, and of the rest:
-Alabama itself: no idea who they'd hire, but would assume recruiting would still be elite, even if anyone else will be a step down
-UGA: They look primed to potentially go on a Clemson-type run, especially building the sort of depth where a great QB could elevate them even more. Smart seems to be cleaning up in a talent-laden state and then picking up top guys elsewhere, that defense is monstrous, and at the very least they're in the OSU/Clemson grouping.
- Clemson had comparable aggregate classes to us when they went on their run, but also had elite QBs with Watson/Lawrence and at least 2-3 elite playmakers on both sides of the ball, and Swinney seems like a natural recruiter who will keep it going
-OSU has recruited lights out and if I recall Day kept a very good staff even if he's young
-A&M could be an intriguing one with Fisher, local talent + a weakened UT, unlimited money, and a statement win like Alabama where recruits may want to be part of the class that takes the next step
-OU's offense will sell itself under Riley, and curious to see if he might try the NFL route + how they'll recruit in the SEC
-UF, PSU & UM are hard to get a read on, but seems like they'll be in that 5-15 range with us
-USC, Texas, and LSU (FSU and Miami to a lesser extent given the in-state competition) should never have a bad class with their advantages, but all seem to be in various states of disarray
-Oregon is a major wildcard, as Cristobal seems like a charismatic guy who's building a good program, they should be able to capitalize on USC's stumbles (I think they were still pulling some good players out of L.A. even during Carroll's run), and Nike as a major NIL factor


Jordan Johnson has 0 catches for UCF and
by Slotts  (2021-11-01 15:12:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

has only appeared in 3 games.


Before you cluck cluck
by ACross  (2021-11-01 17:10:23)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Consider that there are consequences ro receiving shitless coaching in a shitless system. Call it stagnation, call it atrophy. Plus he seems
to have spent a lot of time in Kelly's dpghouse.


Miles Boykin, Chase Claypool, Equanimeous St. Brown
by RJD  (2021-11-02 13:33:32)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and Will Fuller must have been truly amazing to survive such coaching without being five stars. Hell, Ben Skowronek and Javon McKinley are in the league as well.

Stagnation? Jordan didn't spend his year at ND on the injured list or in bed.


This is generally true for our transfers out
by carroll2005  (2021-11-01 20:06:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

A lot of people like to point out that Golson, etc didn’t fly at their new programs.

This ignores the fact that they lost out on 2-4 years of development at ND that can’t be made up for in a single off-season at a new program.

And that a new program is only going to invest so much into a grad transfer with limited eligibility


Jalen Guyton survived and thrived *
by RJD  (2021-11-02 13:37:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Jaylon Guyton had nothing to do with Kelly
by crazychester  (2021-11-02 18:56:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Player 1-85 would be on the next bus out of town.


Yes ND has invested so little in Coan *
by crazychester  (2021-11-01 21:28:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


well that's possibly true for 5th year QBs
by vivaflanner  (2021-11-01 20:30:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Johnson only had 1 year at ND. I think its more likely that he isnt currently able to play WR in college at a high level


Go long I'll look for you.....
by crazychester  (2021-11-01 19:28:25)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I mean its hard for a shiftless coach to screw up surpassing wide receiver talent.

Its also very possible, Occam would argue very likely, that he's just not very good and or disciplined (traits).

Yes, it appears the for whatever reasonhe was in Kelly's dog house. It appears he's in Malzahn's dog house as well.


Don't respond to these nutty conspiracy theories. *
by 84david  (2021-11-02 08:57:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post