But like Book, he's a lacrosse player; a darned good one btw.
But I am rooting for one of the current ND qbs to win the job. Pyne was pretty highly rated and even though Buchner is a frosh, he still may be able to win the job. Unless one of the qbs shows promise, ND will be in the same boat in 2022 and likely a qb will transfer.
It usually takes BK two years to ruin a QB.
Well done.
However, I think BK didn’t actually ruin Book. Did he?
but in a more quiet, subtle fashion.
Admittedly cherry picking some data, but I think they are pretty important
2018 stats
68.2% completion
154 QB rating
Yds/Att - 8.4yds
Redzone Passing Data - 68.8% completion, 184 QB rating
19 - 7 TD to INT overall
2019 stats
60% completion
149 QB rating
Yds/Att - 7.6yds
Redzone Passing Data - 54.8% completion, 205 QB rating
34-6 TD to INT overall
2020
64.6% completion
144.3 QB rating
Yds/Att - 8.0yds
Redzone Passing Data - 44.4% completion, 122 QB rating
15 - 3 overall
So while 2019 numbers saw a slight dec in completion % and Yd/Att from 2018, that TD/INT number and redzone numbers make up for it. 2020 saw a huge drop off in redzone abilities and worst numbers from 2018 in completion, rating and Yds/Att. And he never seemed to improve on his long pass, or willingness to throw the long pass (or maybe you blame his receiving corp this yr). Either way, you really didnt see much of an improvement from his first year's numbers from 2018 to 2020.
So he wasnt ruined by Kelly, but it doesnt appear like he improved much and I think you can make an argument 2020 was his worst year passing at ND.
But I would add that 2020 was the team's best running year and perhaps Book's best/2nd best running year as well...which meant he didn't need to pass as much.
17 - 37 for 207, 5.6 avg 0 TD
18 - 95 for 280, 2.9 avg 4 TD
19 - 112 for 546, 4.9 avg 4 TD
20 - 116 for 485, 4.2 avg 9 TD
I would hope with the better running game it would lead to more open receivers and at least a better completion %. But obviously that didnt happen.
I am surprised by the huge drop off in redzone passing. Especially with the strong running game. I wonder why that took place.
He also only had 5 TD passes not in the redzone this year. Thats pretty bad.
Not knocking McKinley or Skowronek, both of whom performed very well under the circumstances. But neither was/is a Claypool.
Something we haven’t seen much of in the past few years. Would be nice to make teams cover the whole field for a change.
Effort in recruiting is overrated. Kelly is playing 4D chess closing the talent gap.
competing and hopefully winning the job. And if someone beats him out they will be better because of it.
Coan is a solid QB who can win 8-10 games here. If Tyler Buchner, with only one season of HS experience, can beat him out, we'll know we have something special.
#18, Mac Jones had a pretty good Rose Bowl.
Jack Coan was right behind him.
when Coan was the quarterback. Coan throws before the receiver comes open, which is an improvement.
After watching the Meyer-DiNardo interaction and the analysis of Coan, a few impressions.
1. Coan seems a great addition; hopefully the talents, quick judgement and confidence don't get shaken for any reason.
2. The clarity of the explanation of the play analysis by Meyer is powerfully impressive to me. I infer from the discussion that his infectious insight spills into his coaches and players through clear explanations of what has always looked like chaos to me (and I admit being uninitiated). It makes me wonder what goes on it our player/coaches meetings--maybe the analysis and understanding is there, but is the tone, the clarity, the infectious enthusiasm there?
3. The emphasis on the Alvarez-Chryst team is extremely telling. How do we think this compares to the Swarbrick-Kelly team?
But next year's schedule is middling at best. There may be a couple ranked teams on it, but I don't believe those teams will be in the top 10, and even someone like Cincinnati we should be able to out-talent.
If Tyler Buchner's development is sacrificed on the altar of a fool's gold 10-1 2021 season, we're screwed, because the 2022 and 2023 schedules are much more difficult, and we can't take the field in Columbus on September 3rd with a sophomore with zero starts in his career.
The kid will not have taken a game snap in almost two years by 9/5/21, and he'll be behind an offensive line with four new starters and without a bail-me-out wide receiver, not to mention post-CFP expectations. Reasonable minds can differ, but I think Buchner may need a redshirt year (or at least half-year) more than most, especially if there are mechanical issues to work out. And if Clark/Pyne aren't the guy, then why not bring in Coan to be the adult in the QB room, so to speak? Starting Buchner could very well lead to David Carr rather than Peyton Manning.
Plus, I wholly support the "BK only has Coan for one year and therefore can't ruin him" take.
Its like throwing a young boxer into the main event with only 4 or five preliminary bouts.
a fool's gold season? Is next year considered to be a transition year for parts of the roster other than QB?
I think it is a bit premature to anoint Buchner as the future and at the very least a veteran QB brings depth and experience to the table. Given the expectations of this program, I think ND should always be in win-now mode. Let them compete but if Coan is better for next year then I see no problem with that.
He hasn’t played in so long. I do hope Kelly learns how to get his non starting QBs real practice time and game experience
Especially about getting practice and game reps for his backups. They need to be developed and also not be tempted to take an early transfer.
Kelly will screw it up by never playing Buchner, just as he never played Jurkovec and Pyne
portal again next year.
Everyone's doing it.
It's hard work!
My first thoughts are that Leinart won a title as a sophomore with no experience and Tua didn't play until the second half of the title game and starred the next year.
In our recent history, Golson and Kizer didn't have any freshman experience and then led the team effectively as a sophomore. Wimbush had minimal freshman experience and did better as a sophomore than as a junior when he got yanked. I can't conclude his development was harmed by not playing as a freshman.
I also am as skeptical of Buchner as I was Jurkovec. He has mechanical issues that have held him back in comparison to elite prospects. He seems like the kind of guy who could benefit from a year to learn and adjust before being called upon to lead. I'd be more afraid that playing right away would harm his development.
He doesn't have a classic release (which may be an obsolete term thanks to Mahomes}. It looks to me that His release is somewhat low around ear level and he almost "slings" the ball. I didn't really see an overhead release in the tape I saw. That may be correctable but certainly would need some time to adjust. Not as important a thing, though, as ability to hit receivers. So it will be interesting to see what they do with him.
Especially skepticism re Buchner. I’m pretty worried he won’t pan out. Seems like a lot of bust potential there (weird throwing motion, missed year of competition and not strongest level in CA). He’s certainly no Trevor Lawrence sure thing.
I am not a biomechanics expert but what’s weird about this throwing motion? It looks a lot better than Jurkovec’s to this untrained eye.
I’m hardly an expert, beside 30 years of tailgate football throwing, but the late shoulder dropping makes him a little sidearmed at times. In my limited experience that can cause the ball to sail if you’re not careful; and from the video you posted, when he DOES miss it’s usually high.
He also appears a bit inconsistent with his mechanics, especially when he’s forced to throw quickly. Kinda slings it.
With that said, I totally agree that it seems worlds ahead of Jurko’s motion - which is sometimes funky enough to affect the way the ball leaves his hand. Buchner actually throws a consistently nice ball.
Add in his running ability, which is near elite, and he’s a good prospect. Kelly’s best prospect at QB, probably, but that’s not the highest of bars. I do think he has the playmaker mentality that our guys have lacked over the past decade.
And that’s concerning if he doesn’t fix that. However, I don’t think it’s anywhere close to “weird.” I’ve seen several mentions of it being new and weird at the Elite 11 camp, which is the location of my linked video. I’ll have to watch some older videos to identify what’s new about his current motion (to which the high throws indicate he hasn’t adjusted) but I don’t see anything fatally wrong with it.
perhaps ND can pound some teams early and Buchner can get some decent playing time. From what I recall and from watching his highlight tape he is willing to and successfully makes some throws I haven’t seen Book make in 3 years. He also appears to be just as good of a runner when need be and doesn’t tuck and run immediately.
I think this is a smart move in that he is going to put ND in a position to likely win every regular season game and hopefully allow for some playing time for whoever the backup is.
Rees like.
posted by windycityfan on runs against both Michigan and Ohio State. He appears much faster than Rees, faster than Book and much more decisive. Hopefully he never runs unless it’s a last resort. Rees needs to get these guys under center hand the ball off to the backs and use play action more.
often. Given Coan's rushing stats below, I am going to say he isnt faster than Book.
I might be faster than Rees, so that isnt saying much.
He was an ND lacrosse commit. I’m going to say that playing that position in lacrosse and having the offers he did, that he could and can run pretty well.
Based on the tape I see when he has to pull It down, step up and run, he looks pretty capable of doing so. Additionally he doesn’t seem pre-disposed to immediately bailing and bubbling wide at the first sign of pressure.
I would, for example, like to see Buchner start the second half of the Toledo game and play all 30 minutes, regardless of score.
up
Kelly just doesn't seem to have a plan.
Buchner will probably go into 2022 raw, rusty, and inexperienced.
Count on it it.
This is a unique situation for Kelly's ND career -- a previously-molded quarterback with three seasons' worth of experience, who (at least according to reports) has the basic abilities we seem to have been missing lately (accuracy, throwing people open, etc).
And maybe this is something we have to do. The snaps Buchner takes in the spring game will be his first in over a year thanks to COVID, so it may be unreasonable to expect him to be starter-ready in September in Tallahassee.
But there has to be a plan. Because if there ain't, 2022/23 ain't gonna be pretty.
this year for Alabama who had many blowouts. Mac Jones was in there all the time - and almost didn't play at all until Tagovailoa went down.
I think what people learn in practice may be more important than playing. Maybe our guys aren't learning what they need to know. Maybe because it isn't taught. Or maybe it can only be learned on the field in our system.
I see plenty of successful coaches give all/most reps to the starter. But then the backup, when he has to come in, runs the actual playbook, and can do so.
So am I. Who on this board wouldn’t. I’m glad to have him.
Also hearing rumors that Clark won't be able to play next year, and I don't think anyone wants to see Pyne as the starter.
There absolutely positively has to be a development plan here. This is the year to take the lumps because 22 and 23 have Ohio State, Clemson, and Southern Cal, and someone has to be ready to be the QB.
Way to do that. Counting on a true freshman who didn’t even have a chance to play his senior year of high school football seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
If Buchner had a normal senior year, this may not have been as necessary.
I thought he looked pretty meh. That being said, he has big game experience and fairly solid stats.
The move makes sense given Clark's injury and Buchner being a bit of a wildcard.
He’s probably a nice guy and all, but I sure did t see much when he played at UW
He could be a good bridge about until the younger guys are ready.
Austin and Lenzy return
shows better arm and wheels than I expected him to have.
I hope we see that next year.
Wisconsin fans I know like him alot, that's got to stand for something
Wisconsin QB castoffs are needed.
as a Jr and missed this season because of season ending surgery in the fall.
But, I won't confuse you with facts.
Heading into year 12 the program shouldn’t be in position where a three star QB castoff could be starting. It is a mark of poor Qb recruitment and development.
by his high school star rating. I have no idea if this kid is any good or not, but his rating 4 years ago by some recruiting site is totally irrelevant compared to what he did on the field for Wisconsin in the Big 10, as a college starter. Citing his star rating makes no point.
An NC state castaway did OK once.
Kelly should be judged by a lot of things. But by taking a transfer that I doubt you’ve seen play (in an important position no less) shouldn’t be one.
My old man is a UW alum and I attend Wisconsin games from time to time. Maybe you should stay away from making assumptions about what I may have seen.
...than on an evaluation of what he can contribute right now. Shoulda, coulda, woulda is quite justified with respect to Kelly, but Coan is in, so the most relevant judgement regarding him is what he can do for us, not what it's a sign of on some grander scale.
I am thinking about more from the top down perspective than a pure bottoms up evaluation of Coan. It grinds my gears that we are in year 12 of a regime that needs to harvest QB talent from Wisconsin.
Left with 2 years of eligibility to be the starter at BC.
With the Covid rule he could have had 3 years at ND, doubt he would have stayed 3.
Be the starter at BC for 3 or ND at 2. He messed up.
He has similar numbers but with more accuracy and a little better YPC and YPA, and he has a simpler, cleaner throw. He also looked good moving in the pocket to square up for a throw. And he stayed tall to throw over the middle. (He actually threw a seam!) And he looked like a similar runner.
Clear that he wasn’t going to be developed or given the coaching he needed to improve.
Why is he not a fit for Notre Dame? It’s your point. Help us understand.
His star rating is immaterial...he has real games under his belt and has proven that he is a fine QB.
Do I need to point out all of the top programs that have started transfer quarterbacks in the past few years? Like the one that is about to play for the national championship? Or the one that won the national championship last year? Or the back-to-back-to-back Heisman finalists from Oklahoma?
from Alabama and Justin Fields may be a bit different than this guy
You think a guy that got buried on the OSU depth chart might be a bit different than thumbing through Wisconsin’s depth chart?
I guess in the end it doesn’t really matter. It is purgatory with Kelly anyways.
Was injured this year.
We've got zero starts in the room now. I'm not sure we have 10 passes in the room now.
This is a no brainer.
to a position that few agree with and is just flinging all arguments against the wall in hopes one will stick.
He did well at Wisconsin and was the QB of their Rose Bowl team in 2019. But he got hurt, Mertz played well, and the job might not have been open. He is also a former lacrosse commit at ND and may have had some lingering affinity for the school. Whatever his star rating, that proxy isn’t as important as his actual college production.
He was in the national top 20 in passer rating and 7th in completion percentage in 2019, and he’s the taller type of QB we’ve been talking about for years. With an inexperienced line, an inexperienced and small QB is not ideal. As a bridge to Buchner, this makes sense for ND.
What his ranking was back in 2018 does not matter anymore. What type of player he is now matters.
Using your argument, Baker Mayfield should have never started since he was only a 3 star and had to walk-on at both Texas Tech and Oklahoma.
Kelly’s mentorship.
LSU got Burrow, Ohio State needed Fields, Wilson won at Wisconsin, OU got Mayfield, Murray, and Hurts. Those guys are of mixed recruiting rankings.
This guy very well could suck under Kelly. Getting a transfer after one graduates, one transfers, and one has a knee injury is not an unwise move on its face alone though.
but these are two different issues -- whether this is a quality transfer pickup (yes) and whether we should trust Kelly to maximize this opportunity (no).
They aren’t exactly QB savants either.