Adrian Beltre, Joe Mauer and Todd Helton to the Hall *
by sprack (2024-01-23 18:24:11)
Edited on 2024-01-23 18:25:03

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Mauer as first ballot surprises me a little
by DakotaDomer  (2024-01-24 12:42:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I thought he was going to wait a year. It's probably getting a little hard to find "clean" players from this era to put into the hall each year.


I doubt that has anything to do with it
by sprack  (2024-01-24 15:16:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Beltre was a lock, so it's not like no one was getting in this year.

There really was no point in making Mauer wait anyway.


He’s the first player in any sport
by TouchdownJebus  (2024-01-25 19:26:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

To be drafted by his hometown team, play there for 15 years and make the Hall


That can’t be right
by Cartwright  (2024-01-26 21:22:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Cal Ripken for one, unless we’re gonna be pedantic and not call the Orioles his hometown team because he grew up in Havre de Grace and Aberdeen and not within Baltimore city limits.


I’ve seen the additional caveat -“drafted #1” *
by DakotaDomer  (2024-01-27 05:32:38)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Ah, that could be it
by Cartwright  (2024-01-27 12:37:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Can’t imagine there aren’t any players from the Canadiens, for example, who wouldn’t fit the bill without the additional “number one overall pick” requirement.


Cal was a second round pick *
by sprack  (2024-01-29 14:10:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


The post doesn't say anything about the round
by Cartwright  (2024-01-29 15:48:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

just "drafted by his hometown team". It was presumably supposed to say something about being the number one overall pick.


Yeah, I missed a key point
by TouchdownJebus  (2024-01-30 12:05:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Joe Mauer of the Twins is the first player in MLB/NBA/NFL/NHL history to be drafted No. 1 overall by a team from his birth state/province, play 15+ seasons for that team and reach the Hall of Fame.


Maurice Richard would be one off the top of my head
by NDNORTH  (2024-01-29 09:38:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

but the NHL draft wasn't until '63.


He was the #1 prospect in the nation in high school
by sprack  (2024-01-26 09:28:37)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

in football. He was a quarterback who led his high school team (Cretin-Durham Hall in St. Paul) to the state championship, and had signed a letter of intent to Florida State.

He was the first pick in the baseball draft. I remember Cub fans on this board crowing that the Twins blew it because they passed on Mark Prior.


And still not the best QB in his HOF class.
by SavageDragon  (2024-01-26 18:59:52)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Helton, for a brief time in college, was the starting QB at tense ahead of one P. Manning.


Last sentence would have been me had I been on here then.
by bizdomer09  (2024-01-26 13:54:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

We thought it was cute that the Twinsies took the hometown boy. Oops. Worked out well for a couple of years. Don't know if Prior would have held up better had his college arm not been run out there by Dusty for 120+ pitches per outing as he passed 200 innings in September and October. I thought it was great then, until it wasn't. Anyway, counterfactuals aren't worth mulling over. Mauer proved it in fact.


People were making the mistake of
by sprack  (2024-01-28 15:23:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

comparing the readiness for the major leagues of an 18 year old signed out of high school (Mauer) with a 21 year old signed out of college (Prior). Of course Prior was going to get to the majors sooner.


That would have been quite dense.
by bizdomer09  (2024-01-29 18:25:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I liked picking Prior over Mauer at the outset. I was still pleased after 2 years, but that was based purely on Prior pitching as well or better than the hype, not on his being on a fast track vs Mauer. And there was a whole lot of hype for Prior. Not quite Kerry Wood level, but close.


I was reading John Heyman's column in the NY Post this
by G.K.Chesterton  (2024-01-23 21:42:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

evening on the voting results. I wasn't aware that there was a "proven" steroid rap against Gary Sheffield. I guess I forgot his name made it into the Mitchell Report. Because of all this, Heyman couldn't figure out why he got so many votes, getting more than A-Rod.


Sheff has a somewhat believable story
by jt  (2024-01-25 14:48:46)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

about being prescribed stuff by Victor Conte (head guy at Balco) to deal with his post surgery recovery (creams, etc.) and not taking anything heavier than that. He also only worked out with Barry a few weeks before they had a falling out (not hard to believe) and says that he didn't do anything out of the ordinary. This is backed up by Conte.

Now, I had thought that there was something else there but perhaps I am mistaken.

Alex, on the other hand, is just a total fucking liar and was the whole time.


I think the Mitchell Report is looked at as less credible
by tdiddy07  (2024-01-24 13:18:00)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

than evidence produced during law enforcement investigations or early official positive MLB tests/suspensions. Also, the more vociferously PED use was denied (including in front of Congress or while denigrating those who truthfully reported of their use) the more that is held against the player. The Report is probably mostly right, but the investigative process left some room for doubt when pinpointing particular individuals.


I think it’s because Sheffield apologized a long time ago
by sprack  (2024-01-24 13:00:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

A-Rod apologized also (unlike, say, Bonds) but he also got suspended an entire year first. That probably sticks in the writers’ minds.


Because Rodriguez is a jerk?
by usaf_irish  (2024-01-24 09:51:46)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It's not hard to figure out. Clemens gets less flack than Bonds because Bonds was a world class asshole even though Bonds is arguably one of the Top 10 players in MLB history.


Disagree on Clemens
by knutesteen  (2024-01-24 14:52:48)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Just one illustration of a lifetime of behavior/attitude...


TheRC makes a good point below.
by usaf_irish  (2024-01-30 07:36:38)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I'll let it stand on it's own.


Does Clemens really get less flack?
by Tubes  (2024-01-24 12:30:35)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

His vote totals have been right in line with Bonds' despite being arguably the greatest pitcher in MLB history. Probably because Clemens was a bit of an asshole too.


I think Clemens does have a better rep
by TheRC  (2024-01-25 09:58:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

As a kid George Brett and Roger Clemens were my two favorite players.

I think Clemens is viewed as less of an asshole because most of his Asshole moments are on-field and are viewed as manifestations of being overly competitive.

Post-retirement interviews with Clemens make him seem like a good guy who might be wound a little tight. Bonds on the other hand got his asshole rep mainly from off-field interactions (though Leyland in Spring Training stands out) mainly from the media and I'm sure do contain a racial component. His post-retirement interviews make him seem charming and chill, but I personally get a phony vibe from him at times when he isn't discussing something technical or specific.

I will also state that we can be virtually certain that Clemens turned to PEDs after leaving Boston. Many claim Bonds only started using after the 1998 HR chase between McGwire and Sosa. I dispute that and think it started earlier but likely turned up a notch after 1998. Face and body changes were evident by 96 IMO.


His reputation, at least at one point, was somewhat better. *
by usaf_irish  (2024-01-24 13:19:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post