Your first two points are not correct.

Your first two points are not correct.
by tdiddy07 (2024-04-05 17:19:31)
Edited on 2024-04-05 17:21:24

In reply to: Events are conspiring for ND posted by SEE

And they are likely the most important these days.

On point one, for starters, I don't think there's any reliable support for the position that pre-NIL players were paid in significant amounts that made other offers clearly more desirable than NDs. And while ND players do fine in NIL, it's not clear that's an even playing field. Early signs were that ND was being beaten out in NIL against other elite schools. All information on this topic if murky. But I certainly haven't seen evidence that makes me confident ND is on an even playing field with the elite teams that are the only comparison that matters. The best evidence this is the case is that despite a greater staff commitment to recruiting from the top down and despite initially having elite classes when Freeman was signed, ND's recruiting classes took a hit when NIL opened up. ND was unable to sign verbal commitments from the kind of guys that Kelly could never get verbal commitments from in the first place. The result is that, despite great initial enthusiasm on the recruiting trail from Freeman, his classes are not much different from the bulk of Kelly's. And now there is no longer an upward trend for future classes. Unlike Freeman's first couple classes that were great early and then lost his five stars, his next class is notably worse than the past couple and is only relying on raw numbers for its early ranking. If that class closes like the last couple classes closed, it will likely drop out of the Top Ten.

ND is still likely at a disadvantage with transfers because it has more restrictions than others in bringing in players. In a grad transfer only world, that rule helped level the playing field for ND. But in an undergrad free transfer world, ND can't bring in the numbers that other teams can in order to fill gaps as efficiently. Undergrad business majors cannot transfer in and expect to be on track to graduate, greatly limiting the pool.

I don't disagree with the other points. But I don't find them particularly instructive. There was great institutional commitment to ensure Kelly succeeded. Yet he didn't.

I don't think anyone should take the position that ND can't win a title. But I see no evidence that ND is structurally better positioned to do so now.

They are 100% correct

> Every year ND lost recruits to the bag man. If you follow ISD or others, you’d know it’s common.
> Compare transfers before Freeman to after Freeman. If you can find a comparison for what they brought in this year I’ll be all ears. They brought in the #1 transfer QB, the #1 RDE, the top WR from Clemson. I don’t think it’s close at all.

To be able to plug in a QB, a JJB an Oben and a nickel into a team as transfers is a luxury no previous coach has had. I think the transfers on this team outnumbers the seniors who made it to four years from at least one previous class.

And I should mention that ND is expanding numbers and exiting players as well.

You are only looking at how much ND increased transfer

influx. You are not looking at how much other schools have increased transfer influx. Other schools are bringing in more kids than ND is to fill gaps. And ND has challenges compared to those schools to be able to fill in the slots that are opening up. ND will likely bring in larger freshman classes compared to those schools as a result, which will put an onus on development and retention--the latter part being more difficult these days.

I'm not saying that bag men never happened. But there's little reason to think that was a greater structural challenge than it was in the 80s. It was largely a bogeyman for people who refused to hold the head coach accountable for working harder at recruiting.

by "exiting players" are you referring to running guys off?

as if that's a good thing?

In other words, you're claiming that now ND is no different.

ND is still different, but less so than previously

As for running guys off, ND does not revoke anyone's scholarship. Some kids will leave to seek playing time elsewhere but all have the option to stay.

Coaches at other schools who hold similar periodic conversations with players regarding playing time and their position on the depth chart don't always offer that option. While others (Andy) may disagree, I think that difference still has some significance.

It's a huge difference

Allowing a guy who isn't going to cut it on the football field to stay around and focus on academics and get a degree is hugely important. I'd argue it's the most important part of the scholarship offer.