there seems to be only two elite coaches; and do you really think ND would want either one? They both scream and yell far more than Kelly. Even Lou Holtz did that more than Kelly.

No, Kelly is not the best coach. But it will be a long search to find one who satisfies the ND fanatics.

The problems with ND football are intrinsic and not fully Kelly's fault. If I were to make changes it would be with the Board of Directors.

Always suspected it, but the performance in big bowls confirms it. Kelly will never even "fluke" into a title. It is, in all reality, impossible for Notre Dame to fluke into a title. We HAVE to go 12-0. Then we (everyone) HAVE to win 2 games against really elite teams. That would be no fluke.

Kelly will never win a title. Unless he goes back to D-II.

Lose three and not be competitive against an elite coach in the Bowl game. He doesn’t recruit consistently on an elite basis. He ignores special teams. He has a simplistic running game which he ignores also. He abandons said running game when the chips are down. He has never won a big game and he gets exposed every time he goes against elite or near elite coaches. He makes the same stubborn mistakes over and over. He hires inexperienced assistant coaches.

And best of all he is one of the biggest assholes in sport.

Swap in Lea during 2015 and he might actually have pulled it off that year. He didn’t have an elite OC that year but might have had enough talent to get by anyway if he had a legitimate DC to prevent that collapse.

Some act of God the OC gets Kelly to agree to throw away his offense and insert a power rushing scheme as the base of the offense.

Kelly himself can never be elite. He can’t coach either side of the ball or an individual position. He is totally dependent on assistants. If he were to get two elite coordinators and an elite OL coach (Moore), then it is possible he could win a title in spite of personally not being elite.

He is not elite, now. But I'm no longer on the "Fire Kelly" bandwagon. I didn't think he was capable of making the changes he's made so far, but he has. He's improved his staff, essentially eliminated the purple-faced tirades on the sidelines, and press conferences are about the team (not individual player failures). He's bonding with players and they seem to be ready to run through walls for him. Can he become elite? I don't think we know yet. But he had to be good before before becoming elite. He is now good. Things are improving, and I'm now willing to wait and see. He needs to improve depth and to learn to get the best out of his players on the biggest stage. I no longer think I know his ceiling, so he now gets the benefit of the doubt from me.
I'm renewing my donation. Many of you can now feel free to call me "part of the problem".

There are a lot of good reasons why and many have already been stated here. So I’ll come at it from a little different angle, one that admittedly is based on a fan’s (namely me) gut feel and emotion. Brian Kelly’s teams just do not play a satisfying brand of football. Even in victory, they are seldom dominant. They are soft (especially on offense). They are sloppy. They are inconsistent. They lack an identity. They rely on finesse over physicality. And they never seem prepared for the big stage.

When I was young, Notre Dame games fueled a great emotion in me. There was tremendous joy and satisfaction in victory. The kind of satisfaction you feel when the good guy beats up the neighborhood bully. Even in defeat, I could be proud of the determination and toughness they displayed and rarely questioned their desire, motivation, or coaching.

But with Kelly’s teams there’s something missing, something empty. Maybe it’s just because I’m old and jaded, but I just never seem to walk away from a game feeling that the team really hit the sweet spot. In victory, there’s always a nagging “yeah, but...” feeling. You know, “yeah, but we only could rush for 49 yards against the 101st ranked rush defense,” or “yeah, but that stupid play call on the goal line nearly cost us, or, “yeah, but we were really lucky that field goal attempt went wide,” or “yeah, but, Virginia Tech (or Stanford, or Florida State, or Southern Cal) really sucks this year.” And in defeat, it’s usually just a feeling of complete embarrassment and humiliation.

If Brian Kelly was an elite coach, I’d be feeling a lot more satisfied about the results of this season and the state of Notre Dame football. If Brian Kelly was an elite coach, I wouldn’t be writing this today.

So, no.

Call it a pipe dream, but I think BK and JS are going to declare victory and leave.
Yesterday was this program’s ceiling as currently constituted, and they both know it.

Just not the two biggest games during his tenure at Notre Dame. He has shown he can get the Irish in position to win a championship. But, he has a poor track record when it comes to hiring coaches, and inconsistent recruiting.

Of the teams he beat. There aren’t any elite teams in there.

2013 Michigan St. 3
2012 Stanford 7
2018 Michigan around 11
2011 Michigan St. 11
2017 USC 12
2018 Syracuse around 14
2017 Michigan St. 15
2012 Oklahoma 15

They also beat a pretty good Stanford team that season, which was ranked 17th at the time of the game. This past season the Irish defeated the number 7th(at the time of the game) team in the Country at home.

game day rankings. Thinking people do not cite rankings mid-way through the season to evaluate how good a team was. The only rational exception would be possibly if later major injuries made a team worse and enough games had been played earlier in the year to fairly evaluate them. But the difference in a 5 game sample size and 12 game sample size is tremendous. That Oklahoma team was good but not great. Certainly not elite.

That Stanford team, however, was quite good. Although they were also a very lucky team that scratched out a lot of close ones against okay teams. And ND beat them with what would become their backup QB. I have doubts the result would’ve been the same with Hogan at QB.

That win and the MSU win the following year are the only top possible contenders for elite wins. And the MSU game was gifted to us by the refs.

The 2012 Stanford team did finish #7. Neither were elite teams and those wins are 6 years ago and we all know how that season ended against the one elite team we played.

The point being made, and you're apparently disagreeing with it, is that Kelly has yet to beat an elite team in 9 years at ND. And last night showed that we're still not close to beating an elite team with Kelly at the helm.

The 2013 Michigan State team that finished in the top five was unranked when ND played them.

Not only is he not elite, his offense is a terrible fit for Notre Dame’s natural advantage at recruiting linemen and tight ends.

He's built an RC Slocum-caliber program:

-Get exposed in games vs. truly elite programs
-Zero major bowl wins
-NCAA probation

He just isn't an elite coach and recruiter. I truly believe you could put Brian Kelly at just about any hapless program and he would find a way to build up that program and win regular season games. Kelly just isn't elite at anything. He's above average, though.

Notre Dame is not an easy place to win, and ND needs an elite coach to win big. Just like Alabama did. Without Bear Bryant or Nick Saban they sucked donkey nuts.

I think ND could get their next elite coach from Minnesota again. PJ Fleck is ready and willing.

I think he meets or exceeds the standard set for him.

I do like him much more than his boss. I think he did a good job this year. He’s not a good enough recruiter, and he’s way behind Riley as a spread coach. So ND will never seriously contend for a title under him.

But he has demonstrated growth as a coach and leader, and I think the new ND standard (double digit wins, decent bowl games) is secure under Kelly.

He's mediocre at best. Absent this year's 12-1 record, BK's ND winning percentage was below 60%.


His personal growth as a coach and leader is likely entirely due to some admixture of intensive PR counseling, yoga, meditation and daily handfuls of Prozac.


BK ver 2.0 in 2017 and 2018 does, as you say, meet/exceed the Jenkins/Savvy standard of excellence, which unfortunately does not include a playoff or New Year's Day Six game victory.


Lastly, Savvy will depart ND before BK. Lawyers of his type are smart like that.

You can't throw out this year. If we throw out 2016 he's above .600

He's a decent coach; he is not an elite coach. ND has had 16 coaches who have been there 3 or more years. Only 4 (Rockne, Leahy, Parseghian and Holtz) have been elite).

I want better, but saying he's mediocre is wrong. He is what he is.

Every other coach who had not won a national championship by at least the third year has been shown the door. Kelly is the only coach allowed to stay employed this long without a title. Why is that? Why do people think it will change? Isn't that the very definition of insanity?

How long will the administration allow this to continue? The fact that it's gone on this long can only be because the powers-that-be or the Board of Trustees no longer have a national championship as their goal. As long as ND wins 8, 9, 10 games a year and is "in the conversation" every six years or so and the gravy train keeps chugging, they seem to be fine with it.

Leahy and Holtz were essentially shown the door. We all know about Knute.

Devine left on his own terms as well.

We know what Kelly is. He's a decent coach who will not become elite. Unfortunately, there are't many elite coaches out there. Clemson found one in Dabo. I'm guessing this board would have been meh to his hiring. He ain't going anywhere except maybe back to his alma mater. Saban isn't going anywhere. Meyers is poison. Who else is out there?

There will not be a coaching change until Kelly retires or dies. And the next coach will likely not be much better if the man doing the hiring is Jack Swarbrick.

Until the change is made at the top and this school decides that they truly want to return to making Notre Dame a powerhouse program, we'll get what we deserve.

2018 results lifted his ND winning percentage to the mid 60s - not a mark of a good, let alone an elite, coach at ND -- I note for the record that you omit Devine from your ND elite list.


BK's ND program is not good or even decent but mediocre by national championship and ND's own standards of excellence. His team's on field performances against quality teams make that emphatic point. Absent the 2012 OU game, BK's lifetime division 1 record is 0-for.


He and ND's football program are what they are -- downward trending mediocrities.

He was a good one who caught lightning in a bottle in 1977; he also had three 3 loss seasons and a one 4 loss year.

I was there for his middle 4 years; most things they are saying about Kelly right now were being said about Devine then. Devine beat the guys he was supposed to, but usually pulled one upset a year and also had one head scrathing loss a year.

I know elite coaches overcome the breaks of the game but it's amazing how those two specific breaks might have changed the tenor of conversation even if we still lost 24-10 or similar.

but Clemson's talent and coaching would have still gotten the win. They were already adjusting when Love went out.

Could you ever see him take over one of the coordinator or postion roles during the season and make it better (ala Holtz)?

And I will repeat that I do not think he is even average. Right now he has good coordinators who are carrying him to good performances. He is 100% capable of reverting to 8-5 type seasons.

We have decent co-ordinators now that have tempered Kelly's penchant for ignoring 2 of three phases of the game and fucking up the one phase to which he pays attention and fancies himself the expert.

Under Kelly and Swarbrick, our fate is a random walk to mediocrity. This year was an upward blip in a 30-year downward trend.

We are the 21st-century version of Yale after Walter Camp era The University of Chicago Maroons after the Amos Alonzo Stagg era or The Minnesota Golden Gophers after the Bernie Bierman era.

I don't think it's hyperbole to say that Notre Dame Football as we knew it, ended decades ago. There is not enough institutional will to continue it as anything more than a revenue generator.

1.) He doesn't recruit players at an elite level. I don't mean he doesn't recruit elite players, I mean he doesn't recruit like Saban, Meyer, Swinney, etc. We have very good players and frankly, I reject the idea that we got smoked last night because of a talent difference, but elite coaches find a way to get stud recruits frequently.
2.) He's not an elite player developer. QB is the most important position on the field, yet we seem to have a revolving door of players who keep getting worse the more they play.
3.) He's not an elite recruiter of assistant coaches. The hiring and retention of BVG is a travesty for the players who were at ND during those years.
4.) He's not an elite X and O strategist. Last night was another great example of this. I don't remember when these plays took place, but I remember at one point we really needed a first down last night and we had a wide receiver to the top of the field, then a receiver in the slot on the same side. It looked like man coverage with the corner playing about 10 yards off the WR. We should have run the slot receiver in motion to the other side to reveal the coverage and then picked on that corner to pick up the first. I can't remember the play we did run, but I know it went to the other side and it was a disaster. Then there was the 3rd and 4 when we threw deep and then went for it on fourth down. If we thought more than three seconds ahead, a different play call may have set us up to succeed on fourth down. On the defensive side, check out the replay of the 60 yard TD run that clinched the game. We didn't have anybody in the gap where they ran. Maybe a player screwed up there, but I couldn't see anybody obviously going the wrong way. Also check out the 3rd and long they converted across the middle. That play can't be open there. I could go on, but I actually agree with Kelly here - four or five plays last night would have made a huge difference in the game. Unfortunately, our players weren't put in a position to execute the necessary plays. That has to be the coach's fault, right?

Coaches can generally be elite by doing any two of those four at an elite level. Pete Carroll, for example, was an outstanding recruiter and player developer, but left a lot to be desired as a strategist. Brian Kelly does none of them.

I think it's already been proven he's not.

There's a perception that it's impossible to recruit elite players to ND, so getting the team close to elite is about the best a coach can do. That is complete and utter horseshit, but many people believe it.

Not being in a title or playoff conversation with those rosters is still incomprehensible.

And douchebloggers.

It is tough to get 100 percent consensus on this type of thing.

We witnessed the the level of play where BK's coaching skills were truly deficient. In any situation , he is NOT an 'elite coach. The only point in his favor is that ND's recruiting standards will never permit us obtaining the quality of players that Alabama, OSU, Oklahoma, Clemson can obtain.

That's a serious question

Anyone who thinks otherwise is chugging Swarbrick’s Kool-Aid.

He is not and never will be. He also isn't a good person and lacks integrity, but that isn't what you asked.

a 2 or 3-star head coach at best. But as a human being, I award him zero stars.

He doesn’t have the attention to detail and offensive philosophy required to be an elite coach. Furthermore, he really would need to be a better recruiter than he is to win it all.