We know their arena is the opposite of state of the art.
That was older and worse than the Pit -- Card Gym. I think the Krzyzewski Center opened around 2007 or so.
You don't need top notch facilities to build a top notch program, but even the Dukes of the world have to play the game to recruit against Kentucky.
Duke built that program in a time when facilities expectations and class demands were different.
They were on par with their peers. We may not need to be at Kentucky's level, but we need not to be 30 years back.
That was before most D1 programs had considered practice facilities, let alon had built them. That was when the JACC still was a decent arena by D1 standards. That was a long time ago.
Follow the link below. It has more links along the right side of the page including a video tour and a pictures page. Notre Dame's plans look good to me, but I still don't think the renovated Rolfs will match Duke's facility... and it isn't necessary to match Duke's. It just had to meet the needs I've listed elsewhere in this thread.
Regarding the arena, Cameron was renovated in 2009, same as Purcell Pavillion.
Side note... It took 30 seconds to find the answer. Each school's athletic department has one of these newfangled website thingies.
was preceded by the construction of the ACC, then a wonder of the collegiate world. It demonstrated a clear commitment to the basketball program. The ACC, coupled with the then young and dynamic Digger Phelps was a powerful formula that attracted top talent.
The ability for ND to snare this level of talent has to be attributable in large part to the practice facility and the commitment it demonstrates and as Kayo points out, the immense practical benefits the facility offers. That, coupled with the slightly older but still quite dynamic Mike Brey, is a powerful formula. (I will surmise the same holds true for Muffet and ndwbb)
I'll give it an 8. :)
As important as I believe the facilities upgrade is, we should not discount the work of Ryan Humphrey and Ryan Ayers. They needed the whole package to sell; and now that they have it, they're doing a great job selling it.
These guys have bigger personalities than their predecessors. Both of them will be head coaches in time, and they're driven to prove themselves. It shows in their recruiting work.
Now, that doesn't mean it was for every guy we've pulled. But I have to think that it matters more than a little. Our recent success in the ACC is a bigger factor, if I had to guess. But the facility shows we want to take hoops seriously and that can't be underestimated. I gotta say at least a 7.
Guys at this level want to win, period. Winning means at a minimum deep runs in the league tournament, the NCAAs, and placing players in the NBA. They could care less if they're practicing in a high school gym so long as they have a chance to win.
really liked ND and respected the coaches, that we thought almost certain to attend ND, over
The past 10 years.
Top level recruits talk amongst
each other and compare metrics.
as they do care more.
Otherwise, what you are saying makes no sense.
Is it just a coincidence that all the other good programs have better practice space?
nice add on for all. Perhaps critical for some, but not so much for others. Depends on the recruits ranking of the elements that are considered when someone makes that decision. It won't by itself make Brey a better coach. It won't increase the value of an ND education. It will make practicing more enjoyable until they get focused on the court. It might attract some very good players who might attract other good players for whom the practice facilities aren't that big of a deal. Only one person knows what's inside the head of each recruit. I don't think you can generalize. For sure it won't hurt and it probably will help. Tough to place a number on it.
Given the premise that every recruit is different and has somewhat different priorities in selecting a school/program, our existing facilities do not give visitors the impression that we take winning seriously w/r/t basketball. That wouldn't necessarily cost us a prospect that we are pursuing, but it becomes another hurdle that Brey or McGraw has to overcome.
Top prospects take many more unofficial visits as high school sophomores and juniors than the official visits they take in the summer and fall as they move to senior year. Those who care most about the physical environment, basketball facilities and arenas, don't get serious about the schools that don't have what they want. They see what 15 other schools have and lose interest in the one that has nothing.
The NCAA limits athletes to 20 hours a week of mandatory practice, meetings, and workouts; but in reality, the players are around their basketball space as if it's a full time job.
I hate to tell you you''re wrong, but you are. I can still remember a conversation with A prominent and important leader of the ND basketball team a few years ago. We were talking about various off court issues and student life and he proceeded to tell me how lacking ND's facilities were and how it affected his life as a player and the perception of the program to guys looking at ND. I've heard basically the same comments in less blatant form on and off over the last five or six years. I have complained for years here before I became ill about how the administration had neglected its men's program. Now it appears some action will be taken. While the Rolf isn't ideal, it's a big step. God knows some sort of a facility is needed.
I think the practice facility is virtue signalling by ND. It's say hey elite athletes, ND cares about basketball. That pretty darn important to the elite college basketball recruit.
They also want to be prepared for a professional career if they have the talent to justify it. Therefore the quality of coaching they will receive matters a lot. Therefore the facilities matter a lot.
A stand-alone practice facility that includes state of the art strength and conditioning tools and space are part of the preparation for a professional career, not just having space and equipment the team can use but space and equipment that the team doesn't have to compete to use or only can use when other teams don't have dibs. The team having its own strength and conditioning space also means more access to the basketball program's S&C coach because his office will be right next to the workout space.
The practice facility will also mean 100% access for the players so they can work on individual skills as their schedules allow. Want to work on the new post moves Coach Humphrey taught me? Sorry. Can't do it today. The volleyball team has the arena floor for today's game, and the women's basketball team has The Pit reserved for practice. That common access issue will disappear.
There are other access issues - meeting rooms, video rooms, and video equipment. That's all shared now, and sharing limits preparation time.
But there's more. Notre Dame asks more academically from its players than most other schools. Having study space and computers available so a guy can do some homework between noon walk-through and 7:00 tip-off without having to leave the building is a little bit of academic support that matters a lot.
Finally, there is the nutrition center. It's stocked with fruit and other healthy snacks that players want after practice. It's also stocked with juice and power drinks that players drink between the last class and stepping onto the court for practice.
I took a tour of the hockey arena about a year ago. They have all of this on the lower level of Compton, and they say it's important.
So, to put it kindly, I don't think you have considered the entire scope of a practice facility's impact.
I'm concerned my definition of healthy snacks differs from a D-I athlete's diet.
Trail mix made by the nutritionist, certain kinds of cereal (not Frosted Flakes or others with gratuitous carbohydrates), dried fruit, fresh fruit, bite sized vegetables, peanut butter... You get the idea.
Maybe some bacon, too.
If I had to give my impression of the factors involved in the recent recruiting uptick, it'd be:
1) Recent conference and NCAA tournament success
2) The practice facility
3) The most recent additions to the assistant coaching staff
4) Brey getting more (highly deserved) recognition in recent years for his offensive system
To take the next step into the truly elite recruiting programs, the following will/would probably help:
- Making a Final Four
- Actually finishing the practice facility and being able to show it off
- Having one or more ND players achieve some real success in the NBA (maybe Grant, DJ, Bonzie or someone still to come); Troy Murphy is the last guy that even a serious NBA fan would recognize, and you'd have to go all the way back to the Hanzlik, Laimbeer, Dantley, Woolridge, Tripucka era to find guys who were legitimate stars
For all of this program's success in recent years, ND has been trying compete against the major programs with a mid-major budget. Brey has done a great job with limited support.
I would hope ND can make a run like Villanova did last year.
with your spelling of NCAA.
The rest I disagree with.
First and foremost, it's "couldn't care less." Second, while your point has some merit, you overstate the case. Sure kids want to win, and our recent success and publicity have undoubtedly helped with recruiting. But the suggestion that the quality of the facilities doesn't matter to them is provably wrong. Perhaps the facilities are not high on the list of issues for every recruit, but it is most assuredly a substantial factor for many. Consider how kids look at colleges these days. Sure, they want a great education, but they also want quality living space, dining facilities, areas off campus to have fun, etc.
I think that was in his recent interview on Mike Frank's podcast.
For me the difficulty with a 1-10 scale is that the key point with this is the removal of a -9 or -10 rather than the facilities blowing everything else out of the water.
We've been discussing how the practice facility is bolstering recruiting efforts and obviously it is and will, but I was curious to know if you knew whether or not the recent winning was what finally convinced the people in charge to invest in the hoops program? We all know it should have been done long ago during MB's tenure, but was it finally approved because of the NCAA runs in some part, or was it just finally on the list of things to be done?