Even Mark Clattenburg of all people. Stupid. With the speed of the players on the pitch today there is no excuse for that kind of challenge for the ball. Far too dangerous.
As unintentional as it was, given the result, it's difficult to argue that it's not a red. That said, it's ridiculous to argue that there was no excuse for that "challenge."
He's outside of the box and is attempting to flick the ball over the keeper. How is he to know that the keeper is going to keep coming out and throw his head in there? I can't imagine a top forward not making an attempt on that ball. It would have been just as dangerous (maybe more so) had he gone in with his head too. Nobody would have argued for red if they both cracked their skulls open.
What about bicycle and scissor kicks? Those happen all of the time. They are even more dangerous if a player were to stick his head in there. 99 times out of 100 players get the hell out of the way.
Kudos to the keeper for showing bravery. But let's not ignore the fact that he was just as culpable for going after a ball that he must know almost any attacking player would relish.
He chose to put his leg up. He missed. His challenge clearly endangered the safety of the opponent. He was running full speed and put his boot well above chest level. You are expected to maintain control of your body. He did not.
And yes, bikes and scissors happen all the time. And guess what? Put your boot in someone's face when you do it and you risk a sending off as well. Is that always called right? No. Doesn't change the letter of the law.
And no player should have any 'culpability' for assuming they wouldn't get an incoming boot at chest level or higher while challenging for the ball. Come on, dude. I LOVE Mane as a player, he's incredibly fun to watch. But he made a terrible decision there.
I'm not arguing about the letter of law...or the red. I stated that. I'm arguing the point about whether Mane had no excuse to make the challenge. Every attacking player goes after that ball. Every one.
Below is a link to Benteke's bicycle against United. If Herrera (?) showed half the guts of Ederson, he'd have had a boot in the face too.
My point being that you can't say that Mane did anything other players wouldn't. The commentators in the video all stated as much. Mane didn't lose control of his body. The keeper made a brave challenge, and both players paid the price - in different ways.
If you do that and there's even a chance another player is going to come in contact with it, you're risking being sent off.
I'm not arguing two different things. Mane should have never done what he did. This isn't a blind bicycle kick, this is him charging at a ball and lunging with his boot high. He CHOSE to do that. He was NOT under control. I don't know how you could ever think doing that is anything remotely close to that.
I'm sorry, but no. It's Mane's fault his eyes were up when Ederson came in. It isn't Ederson's fault. Challenge for the ball, sure. Put your boot at neck level? Not unless you're sure nobody's around. It's excessive, stupid, dangerous and has no place in the game.
Mane got a red and 3 games. Luiz got a yellow.
And yes, you are absolutely arguing two points. 1.) Whether it deserved a red. On that we don't disagree. 2.) That Mane had no excuse for doing what he did. We disagree.
If you think that Benteke had no excuse going for that ball then fine. The only difference is that Herrera backed out. Ederson charged in. Contrary to popular belief, soccer is a fairly violent and dangerous sport.
Intent does not matter. It was a straight red.
And I say that as a Liverpool fan. Tough day. Need to bounce back for Champions League this week and we will have Mane for that thank god.
But he was clearly playing the ball. I don't think he saw how quickly Ederson was closing. I'm not sure he even saw Ederson. That was almost certainly Klopp's argument.
Regardless of the result to Ederson, it seriously endangered the safety of the opponent.
This says it all:
face. I don't know what Klopp could possibly be arguing; it was a clear red. I just hope Ederson is okay; it looked really serious.
would be something about Ederson fucking his head a bit. I imagine it had to do more with his angle and not seeing in replays. That and frustration with the sloppiness and Salah finishing like my grandma.