I'm at a loss for how anyone could come to that conclusion.

I wasn't the world's most...responsible poster back in the day, so hats off to you for taking a much better path.

The main reason I generally avoid much of the football section is because of what I refer to as "negativity at all costs". I mean, I get it, it's a football board, and people shouldn't be forced into false optimism just because someone wants an artificial balance. But there does seem to be a race to the bottom sometimes to show who can be the most angry and pessimistic.

I think the problem seems to be a sort of a combo of things:

1. A lot of people feel like they personally think the solution to problems are so obvious, why won't we just take these steps, they know because they were there 30 years ago. As someone who got to see that as a small child, but arrived to Bob Davie, I am incredibly jealous. I don't think it means one opinion is more valid than the other. And while we're long on problems, we are short on solutions.

2. Straw men. Somewhat related to #1, I take exception to the idea that just because someone wasn't present during the 77 or 88 seasons, they somehow think it's ok for ND to go 10-2 and get blown out in any major game. I would be quite surprised to find someone who wanted ND to be a regular Wisconsin and have their team's ceiling be a Rose Bowl win (and yes, right now we'd love a NY6 bowl win, but it still shouldn't be our ceiling)

99% of the posts here are that Kelly has hit his ceiling and is a dunce, Jack is a bureaucratic chump who has enough skeletons in his closet to decorate a haunted house. I agree. I'm sure most of the posters on this page agree. Why is it that most posts start as if somehow they are the lone voice in the wilderness railing against oppression of Kelly Lovers, when there don't seem to be any to be found?

A lot of it reminds me of the early 2000s in Boston, where the Red Sox were perennial heart breakers, the off season was arguments over who needed to be fired, etc. Then they won, then the Pats win. But holy hell, you'd think the world was against them. "nobody believes in us!!!" got really grating.

As far as politics, it's an unhealthy obsession that's pervaded society, and it's hard to stop. I haven't seen it hit here, but I confess I haven't been looking.

I used to have to run a large-ish forum for video gaming, so I can greatly empathize with ElK and the others for having to make hard decisions about what to allow, what to boot, etc. The hard part about here is we all are ostensibly ND-affiliated in some way and are Fully Adults - the standard should be higher. We've definitely been getting more than a few "Twitter" style posts as of late, so it may be inevitable. I still appreciate raging against the dying of discourse.

I think you make a great point that can't be stated enough - we should strive for some modicum of respect in our behavior to others. We are young, old, we have a variety of backgrounds and life experiences. That doesn't mean we need to coddle each other, but my rule of "if you wouldn't say it to the person next to you at a tailgater, maybe don't type it" seems to have worked so far.

And finally (and maybe most contrarian to my previous ramblings), Rock's isn't Bean Bag. Expect arguments to get shot apart, dissected, and battled. Come with your homework completed (not specifically you, just in general). We still should strive to not be dickheads to our fellow posters, but be aware of the difference between rudeness and spicy disagreement.

A couple of my own:

In re politics, we do our best to restrict posts on political views to the Politics board, and we've also tried to limit the more extreme positions on that board as well, so I'm not sure how to address your concern about the "combination of pessimism and politics". If there are people making political points on this board, I would hope people would hit "report post" to bring them to our attention.

In re the pessimism, I believe the biggest difference between NDN and a lot of the other sites out there is our participating audience witnessed actual championship football, either as students, alums, or fans. We know what championship football looks like, and we're concerned the administration of the school would like nothing better than to rid itself of the pressures of said same. If we allow "pessimism", it's because so many other sites have decided to go along to get along, whine about how hard things are now (like ND only decided to move the campus from Miami to South Bend and demand kids go to class in the early 90's), and hold no standards whatsoever.

If you go back to the days when NDN started, this is always how it's been. As you noted, every year we add to our championship drought makes it more frustrating. I'm not sure what you want the alternative to be, because we will NEVER be "that's alright that's OK" about lowering standards. I suppose the best cure is a title, and while we're closer to it than we were under Davie and the rest of the clods, I still consider that an incredibly low bar to clear. I'll settle for being competitive in a meaningful post-season game, and Kelly is 0-4. I think if you saw that change, there would be a miraculous change in the attitude.

I don't care if people are "good Catholics" or not, it's none of my business. Although I also feel if you attend a Catholic school, you should expect to experience Catholicism, and I know a number of former football players, some of whom aren't Catholic, for whom attending Mass was never a hardship. That said, the guy was booted for a months-long trolling campaign that I finally got sick of. There was plenty of other bullshit before his comment about Mass.

Edit: revressbro gives a good summation of the issue above (linked)

• Click here for link at https://ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=football;pid=4194

The post about Kelly ruining the pre-game mass tradition was out of place during a celebration of a kick ass win. I think many if not most would agree.

Proper response: "Hey man, can't we celebrate and have fun here for 24 hours before bashing Kelly or anyone else?"

That's a reasonable response and I promise even the conservative baddies like Andy would at worst, leave that response alone.

ChicagoND99's response: "Bullshit. Mass sucks. I'm glad it's gone. Never should have been going to mass in the first place."

Ok, I'm paraphrasing, but that's the guy's tone. His entire history here was like Jack Swarbrick mixed with that guy you hated in high school trying to pick a fight. Well, he finally got one.

I'm still steaming over his enthusiastic defense of ND gouging it's own alumni for tickets. My mind remains blown. If we don't like paying high prices for good games, there are always shitty ones like Toledo for cheap. This is a fellow alum allegedly.

Peace to you.

Is a sign you might need to check your own beliefs and bias before you check in here

Board is accurate at all. And spare me the melodrama about this board “only for good Catholics.”

Now, that doesn’t mean that people like Molly McGuire are representative.

Sounds like you are just a Kellyloving liberal.

was. Good faith discussions between those with opposing views are welcome.