If you squeezed Kelly's accomplishments into a 5-year tenure, then I would have considered him a success based on where the program was versus where it is. Stretching that out over a decade-plus means he has simply set a new standard of what is acceptable.

especially at a place with Notre Dame's legacy, a head coach that takes the program from one level to another intermediate level, without reaching the highest level -- and takes 11 years, or longer, to do so -- doesn't deserve that kind of leash or that kind of credit.

If Kelly had moved the program from Point A to Point B in 3-5 seasons and then got the hell out -- or was removed by leadership that clearly understood Point B wasn't an acceptable final destination, I'd be more inclined to view his tenure and contributions charitably.

Plus, again, what Andy said.

Particularly at Notre Dame. He's like a roach-will survive a nuclear holecaust, but does that deserve credit? With an Athletic Director enabler?

well actually hundreds of them. And put them in the bottom of the stadium urinals. That would be fitting tribute.

Because that would piss him off forever. Little four foot BK statue next to the others.

Ingenious but cruel and unusual. Mini-Bri. He could stand there next to Moose on the bench.



I think I could dig it. Skilled or unskilled Photoshoppers - here's your chance.

25% of his success was because of ND being ND...a lot of coaches have been successful at ND...only the clowns really floundered.

75% of his success has been due to a watered down schedule that has helped him get into bowl games where he has gotten his arse outcoached.

It is not merely a review of what others would call "metrics."

It is the net result of his tenure. He has dragged ND down, with the complicity of Swarbrick, to a different and lesser place. He endeavored to define success downward. He has made the program indistuoshable and fungible. The damage he has done is permanent.

Kelly is who he is: a football coach who spent most of his pre-ND career toiling at the lower levels of college football, which, along with some of his inherent shortcomings, has led him to fall short on the historical standard at ND both on and off the field.

On the other hand, Swarbrick is Kelly's boss and, more importantly, an alumnus who attended ND during the glory years. He should've known better and should have forced Kelly to adapt to ND instead of the other way around.

Swarbrick is not a leader, but rather a self-absorbed strategery aficionado who enabled the largest case of sexual abuse against girls and young women in US history. But don't call him a liar.

did it come to this at this storied school?

Tag line for the Swarbrick/Kelly Era

That's a significant difference. I don't know what Layden's schedules were like--my guess is that they didn't include UMass, Temple, and a healthy dose of MAC teams. Both of them were at ND practices on horseback, although the picture of Layden on horseback (w/ his 3 backfield mates) is slightly better known than BK on horseback is.

As to BK v. Devine--1 of them had a 3-1 bowl record (3 majors, 1 near major). In postseason games of comparable caliber (counting Citrus win over LSU), BK is 1-4. The win resulted from a great catch & run in waning moments--all 4 losses were by 16+ points.

In Devine's last year, Irish were unbeaten (9-0-1) through 10 games. Like 2020 Irish, they lost their last 2--finishing by losing to an unbeaten SEC champ on New Year's. That SEC champ wasn't a Saban powerhouse, but the Irish gave a far better accounting of themselves. 1980 beat a 9-3 Miami team w/ J. Kelly @ QB, while 2020 beat a 1-8 USF team whose QB I could not name. 1980 also beat 2 major bowl winners (MI and AL). They put up an "uNDefeated" sign commemorating 2020 team in the Gug--1980 season, by contrast, was considered to be nothing special in context of the time.

I think most people would agree that the Top 3 ND coaches (in no particular order) are Rockne, Leahy, and Ara. People could argue for hours about which order these three belong.

I think there is general agreement that Holtz, Devine, and Layden are 4, 5, and 6, respectively.

I wouldn't put Kelly ahead any of those six men. But looking at the rest of the post-Rockne coaches (excluding McKeever and Devore), I don't think any of them belong ahead of Kelly either.

I would put Holtz in the top tier at #4. He was a far better coach than Devine. His record from '88-'93, against schedules tougher than any we've played before or since, places him much closer to Ara than those behind him.

does that single game place Devine closer to the Kelly neighborhood than the Holtz neighborhood in your estimation?

For one, some of those left-it-better-than-found-it dynamics are:

A) driven by forces above Kelly and/or decisions made in spite of Kelly (firing his S&C coach, improving his staff by going with younger, non-family members, investments in facilities and nutrition, etc.).

B) in the relative context of a horseshit list of coaches preceding him.

And, second, the description fits a "bridge" coach - someone that gets you out of the desert but not to the goal (championships). And I struggle to think that should be considered success when it is a 14-year term.

He definitely won more games than Weis.

If Elmer Layden was an asshole, of course.

He's clearly not a success as far as what the standard is for Notre Dame football. You *must* win a title to join those ranks.

However, he is quite clearly a step up from Weis/Willingham/Davie, solely because he has made the job attractive again. I do not believe the same quality of coaches who will be interested in taking over for BK would have been interested in 2001, 2005, or 2009.

Put it this way- the Utah version of Urban Meyer would likely take the 2023 Notre Dame job that he turned down in 2005.

Elite coaches should understand, now, that it is absolutely possible to win a title at ND if you work your ass off in recruiting and know what the hell you're doing on offense. Would that BK make it easier on us and just do those things himself...

ND had plenty of options after each of the aforementioned were fired. Only incompetence, faulty process, bawrongheaded priorities, woeful recruitment of candidates.

How would you compare Kelly and Swarbrick's performance the way that Davie, Weiss, and Willingham, with the complicity of Wadsworth, White, and most notably Malloy handled things?

that when the time comes to hire a new coach, the assclown posse will be demanding a guy like Rees or some other on-staff assistant to "maintain recruiting continuity" and the same types of guys who hired and kept Kelly will be the ones making the decision.

if you hire the right replacement coach.