I'm guessing
by HTownND (2021-01-04 16:22:02)

In reply to: All freshmen need to take either a finite math or...  posted by Kbyrnes


People drawing a huge difference haven't take Finite Mathematics at ND.

I'm not saying it's a joke, but it's not as demanding as it used to be (when everyone had to take calculus basically).


When was this - "Basically everyone had to take calculus"
by dfw  (2021-01-04 18:53:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It hasn't been the case since at least the 1950's (if then) according to a math professor who taught from the early 60's through the mid 00's and until this year continued to go in to the office daily.

In the colleges of science and engineering, calculus was required. For A&L and Business, it was not.


Right
by HTownND  (2021-01-04 20:57:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But the A&L and Business math was calculus light, right?

It is my understanding that there are more intro math courses than their used to be, which used to be, from memory, calculus light, calculus and badass engineer math.

There is more variety in that calculus light space than there used to be.

Although I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.

I know I took the regular calculus, but the other option below that (and there was just one) was much like my HS pre calculus curriculum.

Put another way

The number of classes below 10240 seems to have grown

Math List


Calc "light" in days of yore might have been...
by Kbyrnes  (2021-01-04 21:22:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...a combination of trig and analysis, which was a class I took in high school before calculus.


I wouldn't call it a huge difference...
by Kbyrnes  (2021-01-04 17:04:06)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

..but based on the respective descriptions there is a difference. Here are lists of topics from a recent syllabi for ND's Math 10120 and OSU's analogous Mathematics 1116. There is some overlap but ND's course strikes me as somewhat more rigorous in appearance. We should also consider that OSU allows incoming freshmen to take a remedial math class, reflecting the generally higher admissions standards at ND.

I don't want to sound like I'm saying ND requires the math skills of an Einstein and OSU admits troglodytes, but I don't think there can be any dispute that ND has higher academic requirements than OSU.

ND
Schedule Math 10120 Fall 2019
08/28 Wed. Class Info/ 6.1 Sets
08/30 Fri. 6.1/6.2 Sets Counting elements of a set with Venn Diagrams.
09/02 Mon. 6.2: Counting elements of a set with Venn Diagrams, and Inclusion exclusion principle.
09/04 Wed. 6.3: Basic Counting principles including Multiplication Principle.
09/06 Fri. 6.4 : Permutations.
09/09 Mon. 6.5: Combinations.
09/11 Wed. 6.6: A mixture of counting problems
09/13 Fri. 6.6/6.7: A mixture of counting problems/Partitions Quiz 1
3
09/16 Mon. 6.7: Partitions.
09/18 Wed. Review for Exam 1
09/19 Thurs Exam 1, 8-9:15 a.m.
09/20 Fri. 7.1: Introduction to Probability
09/23 Mon. 7.1/7.2: Probability and equally likely outcomes.
09/25 Wed. 7.2: Equally likely outcomes.
09/27 Fri. 7.3: Compound Events, Union, Intersections and Complements.
09/30 Mon. 7.4: Conditional Probability.
10/02 Wed. 7.4/7.5: Conditional Probability and Independence. Quiz 2
10/04 Fri. 7.5: Independence.
10/07 Mon. 7.6: Bayes Theorem.
10/09 Wed. 8.1: Frequency Distributions.
10/11 Fri. 8.2: Measures of Central Tendency. Quiz 3
10/14 Mon. Review for Exam 2.
10/15 Tue Exam 2, 8-9:15 a.m.
10/16 Wed. 8.3: Measures of dispersion.
10/18 Fri. Start 8.4: Random Variables and Probability Distributions.
10/21 Mon. Fall Break
10/23 Wed. Fall Break
10/25 Fri. Fall Break
10/28 Mon. 8.4/8.5 Random Variables/Expected Value.
10/30 Wed. 8.5: Expected value of a random variable.
11/01 Fri. 8.6: Bernoulli Experiments and Binomial Distribution.
11/04 Mon. 8.7: Normal Distribution. Quiz 4
11/06 Wed. 8.7: Normal Distribution.
11/08 Fri. 3.1: Linear Inequalities in two variables.
11/11 Mon. 3.2: Solution system of inequalities.
11/13 Wed. 3.3: Linear Programming. Quiz 5
11/15 Fri. 3.3: Linear Programming.
11/18 Mon. Review for Exam 3.
11/19 Tue. Exam 3, 8 - 9:15 a.m.
11/20 Wed. Supplementary Notes: Matrices.
11/22 Fri. Start 9.1: Two person Games.
11/25 Mon. 9.1: Two Person Games.
11/27 Wed. Thanksgiving Break
11/29 Fri. Thanksgiving Break
12/02 Mon. 9.2 and supplementary notes: Mixed strategy games and expected pay-off.
12/04 Wed. 9.2 and supplementary notes: Optimal Mixed Strategy.
12/06 Fri. 9.2 and supplementary notes: Optimal Mixed Strategy.
12/09 Mon. Review for Final. Quiz 6
12/11 Wed. Review for Final
12/19 Thurs. Final Exam, 1:45-3:45 p.m.

OSU
Mathematics 1116, Autumn 2018/Spring 2019
1. Graph theory: graphs, Euler and Hamilton circuits, algorithms for Traveling Salesman Problem, spanning trees, etc.
2. Voting & apportionment: preference ballots; apportionment paradoxes; Congressional apportionment; methods of Jefferson, Adams, and Webster.
3. Patterns & growth: Fibonacci and recursive sequences, golden ratio, population growth models: linear, exponential, and logistic.
4. Symmetry: Rigid motions, rosettes, friezes, rudiments of group theory.
5. Counting & probability: counting principles, permutations and combinations, multiplication rule, randomness, probability.
6. Fractals: recursive definitions, standard examples (Koch snowflake, Sierpinski gasket etc.), self-similarity, fractional dimension.
7. Linear programming: mixture problems, examples in low dimension, corner point principle, algorithms.


I would agree
by HTownND  (2021-01-04 17:28:38)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They are higher, across the board.

I would just counter that they aren't so much higher as to be as prohibitive as people think/claim.


I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many of the
by cincysubdomer  (2021-01-04 17:06:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

incoming recruits at the "elite" schools need help with algebra.