ND is a solid Tier II college football program. Disprove it
by nd71 (2021-01-02 12:37:02)
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with trends, number, and facts. It departed Tier I long, long ago.


O-for in big bowl games since 1998, which were true tire iron beat downs, and 1-for vs end of season top ten teams since Holtz are my two "men of genius" markers. Please do not soil us with 2012 and 2013 vacated win citations, whose display in the Gug by ND and on-air mention by its NBC flacks this past season as BK wins violate ND's consent decree of those seasons but ND ceded that moral high ground when Mr Unremarkakble had his first moment that was soon followed with USA Women's Gymnastics


ND very highly likely will not return to such Tier I status until ND's senior leadership (Savvy, Jenkins and the BoF) is cleansed, re-visioned and lead by like the Ted/Ned team of my youth.

Only 3 teams are permanent top tier members -
by ndhouston  (2021-01-02 16:20:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and we all know who they are.

I find the "they care about football more than we do" a funny line of reasoning. If people holding that opinion would broaden their perspective, I think that they would find that fewer schools care about football in the same way that they used to. It's a money-loser for most programs, and given the hammerlock at the top, that will only continue. The lack of competitive balance is killing the sport.

Power 5 building programs for FB says the support remains
by nd71  (2021-01-02 16:39:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Hell, Ole Miss is paying Kiffin more than $4M before his recent pay bump after one season.



Tier 1 should include perennial top 20 teams
by needamirer  (2021-01-02 15:54:00)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

We are top tier and have been in the National championship playoff 2 of the last three years. Name 5 other teams that have done that.

Top 10, yes. Top 20, no.
by nd71  (2021-01-02 16:36:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

BK's recent streak may be his start. But BK ver 1.0 pre-2017 was abysmal.
Could argue a low-end Tier I
by Nodakirish  (2021-01-02 14:18:52)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But your assessment sells better on a tshirt

We are about where we are in recruting - 8-12
by vairishfan1  (2021-01-02 13:22:35)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If we want to be top 5 - we must get top 5 talent...its that simple.
I think Swarbrick largely has carte blanche
by Groundhog  (2021-01-02 13:19:23)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

As has been mentioned countless times, the powers that be are content with how things are.

I also think the large majority of them are aloof, and their information comes from Swarbrick telling them ND football is the best it can be under Kelly. It's likely he has sold that narrative when it comes to other teams that ND fields.

And in doing so, it makes him look all the better when one of them has success in the "impossible" landscape of D1 sports.
Second and third paragraphs nail it. *
by revressbo  (2021-01-02 13:37:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They get the junkets to bowls and the PPT at the EOY
by graNDfan  (2021-01-02 14:04:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Why should they care if we are a MAC level program with a GLIAC level coach
Could argue a low-end Tier I
by Nodakirish  (2021-01-02 13:06:01)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But your assessment sells better on a tshirt

More like Billboard bullet points we did a while back
by nd71  (2021-01-02 13:23:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I guess it depends on your tier definitions
by Bmoreirish  (2021-01-02 12:54:22)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If Tier I is Bama, OSU and Clemson you are obviously correct. If it includes other programs like Georgia, LSU, and Oklahoma then I think it’s a bit murkier.
Here are a few more markers off the top of my head
by nd71  (2021-01-02 13:19:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

- wins vs end of season top ten ranked teams; not competing or grinding out losses (this is where we are at with no chance of it ending going forward with the current bums ND calls its leaders)
- top five CFB school with alums as NFL players earning a check; this by itself would guarantee Tier I status IMO
- rare (let's say less than 20%) is the blowout loss to other top ten teams
- consistent top ten finishes (3 out of every four or five years)
- top five recruiting classes (3 out of every five years); no outside the top ten ranked classes
- not being in the conversation but directing it and being THE topic and example of excellence
- 90% winning record vs Tier II teams
- HC part of as well as being a coaching tree not the scraggly assed shrubs we've had since the 90s


NB "Tiers" were an NDN RH metric used long ago in the aughts to discuss the crapulence of ND's downward sliding degree of its football schedules. The old NDN RH hands will have more to say on this issue.