Is ND a desirable head coaching job?
by Tuscirish (2017-08-10 20:09:54)
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Consider the history since Fr. Ted's era. His hires won approximately 69% of the time, but if you remove Ara and Lou - both of whom practically recruited themselves - Hesburgh hires won only 57% of the time while post-Hesburgh hires have a winning percentage of 60% . I've heard a number of coaches say the ND job has lost it's appeal. I'd like to know what the Board thinks.


Quite certain that question was asked about the Bama job
by Pat85  (2017-08-12 01:35:48)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

on this board around 2006.


No
by faustfever  (2017-08-11 19:53:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Only a serious glue sniffer would want this job at this point.


The OP is obviously free to clarify ...
by CJC  (2017-08-11 20:23:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

but I'd interpret the question to ask whether Notre Dame would be a desirable job with a competent athletic director and appropriately supportive president and senior leadership.

I think it's a variation of the "Can Notre Dame win again?" question.

Are there institutional barriers or values that Notre Dame won't compromise that make it too difficult or impossible to be excellent in today's college football world?

I wouldn't take any job with Swarbrick as my boss, but if you assume competency on the part of the AD and elsewhere in the University, I think Kayo's answer to the original question makes a lot of sense.


Let me clarify
by faustfever  (2017-08-12 08:29:18)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

At this point in the game no elite head coach is coming to ND even for $8-10M no matter what Swabrick's status might be.

Saban
Meyer
Swinney
Harbaugh

Forget it.

Maybe we get lucky--Tom Brady retires after this season and ND can offer Belichick $20M a year to be HC and football AD.


The ND job has more advantages than most
by Kayo  (2017-08-11 11:41:14)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Start with having nearly 100% of the games on national TV, even games against low level opponents. The ratings might be pedestrian now thanks to years of mediocre performance; but imagine the attention the program will get if it returns to prominence. It will get more exposure than any other program, and the gap to the next most exposure will be large.

Notre Dame's fan base is incredible. When we talk about soft demand for tickets coming off of a 4-8 season, we mean more than 70,000 tickets sold. Most successful coaches would kill to get the turnout ND gets for every home game.

Notre Dame might not spend on football like Texas does, but it has a substantial budget at the coach's disposal. ND has good football facilities for all aspects of a football player's preparation - physical development, meetings and video review, and even the stadium despite the weirdness of the Crossroads buildings.

Most recruits' parents love the idea of their kids getting a Notre Dame degree for free; and most like the idea of tight reins from a disciplinary standpoint. As long as they think Junior's football experience will be good and they can count on his athletic development, they will be recruiting assets.

Academics are a restriction, but they are more of a restriction for basketball than football because Catholic high schools and suburban high schools with college prep academic programs produce a higher percentage of top football players than they do top basketball players. If a coach wants players who expect to major in eligibility, Notre Dame will not be desirable; but some coaches might like the idea of coaching generally smarter players because he won't be restricted to remedial game plans. Academics can be a positive as well as a restriction.

The job pays pretty well; and if a coach does fail, it appears that he can count on being paid well for years after he's gone. A successful ND coach has countless opportunities to supplement his salary if he's likable.

It's an excellent job. It's hard work, but it's hard work with advantages that few other schools have to offer.


For the young and upcoming coach, it is (for now).
by art fern  (2017-08-11 11:34:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

For the established coaches worth anything, it is not, in my opinion.

Fortunately, we had a lot of luck with young head coaches. Knute, Frank, and Ara won multiple NCs.


That's funny, I see it the complete opposite way.
by rockmcd  (2017-08-11 15:47:40)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I'm focused more on experience than age, and Knute & Leahy were from such a different era that it's hard to extrapolate to today's coaches.

Up and coming coaches that had little to no head coaching experience (such as Faust, Davie, and Weis) were ill prepared and they got so chewed up and spit out that they never had any notable success thereafter.

Meanwhile, some of the established coaches that they hired (such as Devine and Holtz) went on to fame and success - though Devine probably underappreciated in the shadow of his predecessor.

Then you have guys in the middle like Ara, Ty, and Kelly who had some head coaching success at weaker programs from major conferences. With those guys, it takes good judgment to pick a winner like Ara.


Yes, but not one of the 5 most desirable *
by combodraw  (2017-08-11 10:44:04)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Not if you're an above average (or below) coach.
by 84david  (2017-08-11 10:13:57)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Winning most games and graduating players
(acceptable at the majority of institutions) will
get you fired because, despite
the current idiots running the place,
the alums and longtime fans have high standards.

If you have the chops to shoot for the top,
its a great job though.


Definitely. But he'll have to be firm on what he wants
by ProV1x  (2017-08-11 09:43:24)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

in his contract like Ara was. If you remember Ara walked out, I remember it well, and I thought ND lost him.


Of course it is, I am sure there are several coaches right
by DomerJon  (2017-08-11 09:37:02)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

now that are thinking if I get the ND job and bring them back to win a NC that they would be a legend.


Depends on your leadership tolerance level
by dialadown  (2017-08-11 09:21:21)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

This commercial immediately came to mind.


In fairness to Father Ted
by irishset  (2017-08-11 09:11:35)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Ara and Lou did basically recruit themselves to ND, but Fr. Ted made sure they made it to South Bend. The same can't be said for others who recruited themselves to ND under Monk and Jenkins (Gruden, Saban, Meyer, etc.)


When did Saban "recruit himself"
by ColoraDomer  (2017-08-11 10:04:21)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

or for that matter, Urban? I have never hear of Saban asking to be hired here. And even so, when would we have taken that chance? His best season at MSU was 9-2 and included 3 bowl losses, in the illustrious Independence, Sun and Aloha bowl.

Urban was signed seal and delivered in a secret deal with UF once we got into the picture. He listened, but did not bite.


I think so...
by Buckeyejohn05  (2017-08-11 08:31:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Iconic brand, a program with a high ceiling, huge paycheck, easy recruiting, and reasonable fan expectations.

I think there are a lot of coaches who would trade spots with Kelly .


you lost me at easy recruiting and low fan expectations
by chaseball  (2017-08-11 11:35:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

ND is the only fan base that expects to win national championships while bringing in athletes on the level of a Tennessee, MSU, Texas A&M, and UCLA.


Clarification ...
by Buckeyejohn05  (2017-08-11 13:49:32)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Easy recruiting --ND will always be a desirable destination for recruits, and ND can still recruit a very high caliber of recruit.

The coaches also don't have to worry about pulling their hair out chasing risky recruits because the school won't enroll them, so there is some comfort there for coaches. Generally, ND recruits serious student athletes. ND's problems have always been in development and scheme , not recruiting .

Expectations--I do believe that ND wants to win a National Championship, but the game is in the sewer . I don't think they want to be OSU , Clemson or Alabama who have sold out to win championships. I could be wrong, but I think ND would prefer to a be consistent 10 win program who makes a NC appearance once every 7 years or so, which is a pretty reasonable goal.

Kelly would never be in year 7 at those schools coming off a 4-8 record.


re clarification
by chaseball  (2017-08-11 16:41:37)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

ND has had maybe two national championship appearances/quality seasons in the last 25 years.

ND is not an easy place to recruit any longer -- the built in advantages ND enjoyed for most of the 20th century are long gone and the recruiting results for most of the 21st century have bared that out.

ND believes in the idea that college football is true amateurism -- where program's who are favored to win national championships year in and year out have publicly held that belief but privately have turned their football program into an NFL like business.

ND is way behind the first tier when it comes to attracting/securing commitments from the nations best prospects -- a lot of it is a result of their own self handicap (archaic policies as it relates to admissions, and eligibility; archaic beliefs that college football programs can win at the highest level while still providing a real education for their athletes, etc. etc. etc.)

Sadly the fan base is still in denial as well which only perpetuates the mediocrity.


You're wrong about recruiting in the 21st century.
by dentonfreeman  (2017-08-12 01:51:04)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

People who keep up this bullshit line about Notre Dame not being able to recruit anymore are completely full of shit.


Of course. You can make NFL money ($4.5MM),...
by KevinG  (2017-08-11 08:30:12)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...suck badly at it, publicly embarrass yourself and your employer, get your program put on probation, commit assault & battery against an alum on primetime national television, commit involuntary manslaughter, and not get fired.

Great compensation and amazing job security. Sounds like a great job.


Of course it is
by Chuck84  (2017-08-10 22:17:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I think it's easy to see decades of failure and merely assume it's the best we can do. But, if we ever stop thinking small and if the powers that be could allow the best and brightest to take control of this program, we'd never have this conversation again.

The problem, Dear Brutus is not in our stars, but in ourselves.


it's not 1988 anymore, Chuck *
by jt  (2017-08-11 01:10:09)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Gruden was upset he did not get the job and promptly won
by Moff  (2017-08-10 22:12:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The Super Bowl the next season. Others who wanted the job include Vince Lombardi, Don Shula, and Tom Coughlin. Other than that and interviews with Stoops and Urban, and 28 years of coaching by our three HOFers. I've got nothing.

Is it hard to attract good Presidents and ADs at ND?

It's apparently no longer an attractive place for fans, as evidenced by the emergency marketing efforts to unload unwanted tickets.










Bullet dodged.
by SWPaDem  (2017-08-11 09:44:52)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Can you imagine having to live up to that expectation year after year?

It's so much better to be in the conversation every now and then.


If you take out doubles, triples, and home runs
by pmcdnd96  (2017-08-10 22:01:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Babe Ruth only had about 1500 hits.

What coaches have you heard say the ND job has lost its appeal?


Before you beat me to it, mine was going to be...
by IrishGeek  (2017-08-10 22:10:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If you take away New York, Boston, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Napa Valley, Sonoma, Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon, and the Finger Lakes, America is a pretty shitty country!


Disagree
by locolobo  (2017-08-11 01:35:44)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

You didn't even touch Colorado.


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