Thus, some of his act wearing on kids is solved by the fact they leave before he reaches a breaking point with them. Rinse, wash, repeat.
I suspect they could/would win a NC under him before he leaves. He is that good IMO. He will light a fire under them every bit as bright as the fire Holtz lit under ND his first few years. We will see some drop in recruiting because he will get virtually any player he wants the first three years. Not fatal for us, but not good.
Worst of all, he will make Michigan better than ND for at least 3 years. That alone should make us not want him there. Even after he leaves, it will take 3 more years for his players to wash out of the system -- see Stanford.
I remain convinced that Jim Harbaugh has the potential to be the best college football coach in the nation, and that he is miscast in the NFL. His public perception is that of a pretty strange guy, and I believe it based on a couple of incidents. Years ago, when Harbaugh was with the Bears, my wife (single at the time) was in a bar with some friends in Chicago when Harbaugh found himself next to her and said "So.....where do you live?" (first question). One of her friends told her who it was, because my wife's standard questions about football are whether it's intermission yet and if anyone has hit a home run, and she was unimpressed. She gave him a general area. He proceeded to say no more to her or anyone else for a minute or two, then back to her "So.....where do you live?".
Story two - a couple of years ago, I was waiting at a gate at O'Hare in terminal 1 - B concourse. If you know O'Hare, you know that to get to C you go down an escalator, way underground, travel a long way across the tarmac, and then up a long escalator to get back to airplane door level. I saw Harbaugh walk by and, as my gate was near the escalator, saw him get on it to go to C. I'm not kidding, within 20 minutes I saw him do that four separate times. The fourth time, he fit the Frank Caliendo characterization, as he was riding the elevator up, backwards, with his eyes wide and looking like he was strung out on something. The whole time, he was carrying nothing. And yeah - he was wearing a black shirt and tan pants...The only other time I recall being creeped out by a celebrity was when I went to the 1990 USC-UCLA game and stood behind a really weird loner wearing a USC letterman jacket who turned out to be OJ Simpson.
He's an intense, and odd dude - but a great coach.
There are two pretty common "tells" for crazy people. The first is that their eyelids are open to the point that you see a lot of "white" above the iris. During the "Runaway Bride" saga in Atlanta, I remember doctor's discussing this phenomenon.
The second is that the person walks around slack-jawed as his natural "resting" face.
He has both of those traits in spades.
will not likely happen. I heard it mentioned earlier today a fact that is very enlightening.
Harbaugh has never coached a team outside the state of California. San Diego, Stanford, now the 49ers.. Rumor has it his wife will not leave Cali..
Why move from the warm confines of California to cold & damp Michigan? He probably could keep the same home in the SF/Oakland Bay area.. Not that an $8Million dollar contract would make a move difficult.
The supposed offer from Michigan is simply a ploy to give the Raiders a reference point $$$ wise. His ego drives him... His Brother has a Super Bowl title... he needs one. College Championships are a step below the ultimate goal of winning a Super Bowl.
He wins, but is very difficult to work with.. The window for the 49ers to win is starting to close... No defense... No offensive line ( this year), and really no Franchise QB..
I thougth the defense played great, especially considering all of the injuries. Defense was not the problem. It was all offense.
My point was more about all the injuries and suspensions they've had. I would agree somewhat that the defense has played decently in spite of all those problems. Can't say the same for the offense. I think they over invested in Kapernick.. I saw him play for 4 years at Nevada, so I have a good sense of what he is ( A good running spread QB with marginal passing skills).
At this point in history ND is institutionally committed to football mediocrity. Of course this is not true in a direct sense - surely leadership wants to win, just as most humans, given a choice, would be rich - however, just as most humans prove unwilling to do what it takes to become rich, ND leadership has manifestly demonstrated its lack of will/guts to do what it takes to restore the football programme to greatness. Throwing money at facilities etc. does NOT constitute a demonstration of will in this context, especially considering how easy that is for ND to do. Only hiring a real coach would clear that bar, and that's not going to happen. Every time a real coach comes available, ND is quickly ruled out of consideration. Every time ND goes through the coaching carousel itself, real coaches are quickly ruled out of consideration. I don't see this changing anytime soon - not without some sort of miracle among leadership.
Regardless of whom Michigan - or anyone else for that matter - gets, ND football is slip-sliding away.
Link to live stream in article linked below...
Just to say "Michigan Sucks" and walk out.
He wouldn't have to say anything. Just wordlessly shit in the hat, then walk away.
That Michigan simply put those numbers out there to make it look like they tried. When in fact Harbaugh had already told them no weeks ago.
They will be negotiating against themselves when they start talking numbers to the guy who wants the job.
Michigan: "Ok. Let's talk numbers."
Prospect: "Ok. I'll take what you offered Harbaugh."
Michigan: "Those were just rumors. We don't have that kind of money to offer you."
Prospect: "I heard it on good authority that you DID offer him that amount. My agent talked to his agent. Starting off by not telling the truth is not the way to deal with me. I won't lie to you, so you should not lie to me. It's something called trust."
Michigan: (pregnant pause). "Ok. I'll get back to you. Where's your agent? He was supposed to represent you here today."
Prospect: "He got me in the door. From here on out, I represent myself."
Michigan: "Ok. That's good. That's good. Want a bagel chip?"
the bidding for an NFL team starts at 10 million/year for him. Now, he had a bigger offer in 11 to go to UM and went to SF instead; is it because his wife wants to stay in the bay area, is it because he wanted the NFL challenge, or is it a combination of those reasons and/or something else? I don't know.
Top salaries right now are 8 Million for Payton and Carroll, Belicheat gets 7.5 Million.
The 8 Million that Michigan offered makes him the highest paid coach at any level!
He's saying the bidding for Harbaugh will start at $10m
Many 49ers fans think it is the team ownership and management that are crazy as shithouse rats. The break with Harbaugh is just part of a larger unraveling of a once-marquee franchise. Not the first time in history that the descendants of a very able leader turned out to be nincompoops.
First off, Niner fans like SF Giant fans are some of the most unknowledgeable sports fans I have ever seen. Win and they don't care what else happens (granted true of many sports fans). But they also get all worked up over their panda hats, garlic fries, and what micro brew is on tap at the stadium. Superficial fans at best who are stunned that Kapernick isn't effective this year without understanding that the NFL mostly requires a pocket passer to succeed and Kap is most successful outside the pocket (and in the NFL this often means into the waiting arms of a linebacker). His scrambling worked well initially for defenses prepared for Alex Smith, Kap's skills don't work too well anymore. Average Niner fan can't figure that out. And so on and so on....
Secondly, Niner ownership is finally taking to heart the word "ownership". Just because your fan base is ignorant doesn't mean you can sleep at night like Lurie, Magowan etc to win at all costs. McDonald has had one too many sexual assault accusation, bam he is gone. Harbaugh has had one too many run in with opposing coaches, bam he will be gone too. For the Yorks, this is their legacy and Jed is growing a set of balls to run the team to be something he is proud of. Fuck Harbaugh. I find it refreshing to think an owner may have a shred of integrity.
Glad you've got the SF fanbases figured out. Hope it dulls the pain of being a Mets fan.
I think that this could have been handled better by everyone but Harbaugh cannot get along with anyone and prefers to have everyone on edge at all times because he thinks people work better with the tension. That's not going to work for very long.
… Harbaugh's steadfast refusal to do anything in regards to fundraising and glad handing when it came to the construction of Levi's Stadium.
"Jim we need you to attend this dinner."
"No, I'm not going. I'm a football coach. I coach football."
"Jim, you work for us and you're going."
"I don't work for you. I work for my team."
"Jim, you're going."
"No I'm not."
I'm fortunate to have friends in the organization and I trust them when they tell me these exchanges happened and they're a big part of why the relationship has gone south.
his biggest issues are with York and not the GM.
Harbaugh too (Steve Young and Jerry Rice). I have no idea what the context was, but Rice said something about "not doing things the 49er way."
I think that mostly Steve Young's issues have been with the offensive scheme this year and the lack of qb development going on with Kaepernick. I think Harbaugh is a great coach and I am dismayed that they couldn't get this worked out but I think that he shit the bed this year on offense.
... I've seen Kaepernick this year he has looked worse. A year ago he and Wilson looked like the future of NFL QBs. Wilson has had struggles this year (his OL has been bad), but he has kept focus better and makes better decisions. He may just have a better QB mind, but it seems to me that the 49ers staff has given Kaepernick the help he needs.
terrible scheme, no thought process on progressions (how about moving the pocket against the Seahawks so he isn't just a sitting duck?), no play sequencing (here we will run zone read for 15 yards and then not go back to it for the rest of the game).
However I am used to seeing such things for other reasons.
In some ways, I would appreciate Harbaugh at Michigan because it would demonstrate not only that a team "can" win with a tough style of play, but in fact demonstrate that this is the preferred path for upper-midwest teams.
Although if ND does not already appreciate that after Hayes, Schembechler, Holtz, Alvarez, Dantonio, Meyer ... then, well.
coaches who stayed employed for extended periods. Schembechler and Hayes come immediately to mind and in the current period Gundy and Miles have had some weird episodes and even guys like Paul Johnson and Spurrier seem pretty close to the edge. Stanford is a fairly conservative place as colleges go and they didn't seem to be in any particular rush to get rid of him.
I think he would be a grand slam home run hire but I don't think the odds are in their favor. The 49ers were out of the playoffs Sunday. The way coaching hires happen these days, I would have thought they would have bagged him by now if it were going to happen. They probably still have a chance and I admire them for trying.
If it happens and Meyer is in Columbus and Harbaugh in Ann Arbor, Swarbrick will have a difficult act to follow his next turn up at bat. I also think he'd look pretty silly with those guys at Midwest powerhouses and Kelly running his show but he would probably think they're equivalent.
the Super Bowl more than a national championship at Michigan. I think he still has demons he wants to exorcise; namely the close-but-not-close-enough result against the Steelers when he was with the Colts.
I think Harbaugh will land with a team that has a quality QB. His best years at Stanford were made possible by Andrew Luck. Take away Andrew Luck, what was his record at Stanford?
There is no Andrew Luck on the Michigan roster. Money isn't the only thing that attracts coaches to a program.
the 49ers and Kaepernick was a second round pick out of Nevada who Jon Tenuta and Corwin Brown frustrated and shutout. He also didn't have Luck when he beat SC in the Coliseum as a 43 point underdog. I think the odds are against him ending up at Michigan but I doubt the lack of a star QB on their roster would be the thing to prevent it. I just don't buy the theory that says Andrew Luck is responsible for his success at Stanford. I would think going to NFC Title Game-Super Bowl-NFC Title Game in his first three years as a pro coach with a team that hadn't had a winning season in the previous eight years would put that to bed.
But the NFL is a far different game than college football in terms of preparation and mentality. The college game is as much emotional as the NFL game is professional. Harbaugh is able to combine both but he is a much better fit in the NFL.
I think he needs a QB like Luck to succeed with his offense. It is why Miami and Atlanta would be perfect suitors for Harbaugh's services. I think Harbaugh prefers to work with a GM who can get the QB he needs rather than recruit and develop a QB like the college game. Hence, my thoughts about Luck.
I also believe he does not want to involve himself in a reclamation project like Michigan. If he starts out 9-15 at Michigan, he will be on thin ice. He knows it.
As for Kaepernick, I was at that Nevada game. We were very lucky to get a shutout. Nevada was constantly driving the ball but could not score.
ran after him and initiated the confrontation. To point number one, his wife does not want to leave the Bay Area and is very firm on that. It is more likely he becomes the Raiders head coach than Michigan's (which I would absolutely love to see). Also, while I completely agree with your assessment of Harbaugh's personality and insanely divisive attitude, I have pause when agreeing with the point that he wouldn't stay long at Michigan if it were to happen.
Here's the catch with Michigan: the reason Harbaugh rubs people the wrong way and always wear's his welcome within three to four years is because he, like almost every successful coach, a huge control freak. He wants to have full control over everything surrounding his football team, and anyone who stands in his way of winning football games will draw his ire. It's amplified because he's a control freak with the attitude of Bill Romanowski. GM's in the NFL, especially a good one like Trent Balke, have big ego's too and won't give Harbaugh all the power he wants. They battled over it for 4 years and San Fran has finally had enough. They made the decision they were getting rid of him before the season started.
Put him at a college school like Michigan, one that is starving for a savior of their football program, starving to return to national prominence, and I think they would be willing give him full reign over everything that is Michigan football. The AD would be there only for scheduling and building the brand, Harbaugh would be able to do as he please and as we all know, would do very well. With the money they're willing to pay him, and the control they would grant him, I think he would stay until he chooses. It would be fun to watch him and Urban battle it out, and return that rivarly to a huge level again.
he doesn't want personnel control of an NFL team, for example. He doesn't want to pick the players and is fine with Baalke picking them. If he goes to another NFL team he will likely bring his own GM with him (especially the Raiders; Tom Gamble is the rumored guy).
He's just a dick to work with; his issues aren't with Baalke, his issues are largely with York.
.....academic aspects of UM's sports teams and he was quickly waterboarded.
He has since stopped that line of thought.
UM badly wants to win at any cost, especially after watching their rival hire Meyer and become entrenched as the bully of the Midwest (largely by SEC tactics).
“I went to congratulate Coach Harbaugh and got shoved out of the way. And then I didn’t expect an obscenity at that point, so it was a surprise to me at the end of the game.”
he did not get "shoved out of the way" Harbaugh hit him on the back a little harder than normal because he was fired up about winning the game and Schwartz ran after him. Are you really that sensitive as 40 something man that someone mispronouncing your last name will make you go after them? Please, it was about Schwartz being a sore loser.
goes back to where they crossed paths/swords as player/coach in the 90's.
schwartz was never respected by Harbaugh.
The word Harbaugh used is "a derogatory term for someone, as in calling a person a "dick" or a "schmuck"."
I watched exactly what happened and asked for the "inside story"...
I think quite a few Lions fans have similar thoughts about their late departed coach.
Harbaugh got there? Not a damn thing as best I can tell.
and Balke's been very good with signing contracts. The Kaepernick deal is as hollow of $96 million as you can imagine. It's pay as you go after next year.
He would be a game-changing presence in college football and a perfect fit at UM. I hate Michigan more than anybody on this planet aside from ndoldtown. But to think he would do anything but excel there is wishful and irrational thinking.
And ND's prospects are not good. If Kelly's efforts to jump out the plane with the last parachute are unavailing, and he stays at ND, you know what we'll be doing for the foreseeable future. Namely, blowing goats. If he leaves, then the odds are decidedly in favor of ND stepping on its crank and staggering around until they hire some bullshit replacement like Fitzgerald or Martin.
A resurgent UM will certainly diminish the stature of ND's football program.
I think its a lot of ESPN sausage talk that the 49ers disappointing season somehow invalidates Harbaugh's acheivements and proven excellence to date. I hate the guy, but he is an ass kicker. Gruden and Holtz and Saban and Carroll and Andy Reid and a host of other great coaches all were forced out of NFL jobs. So, he and 49ers ownership had a falling out. It happens.
There odds are infinitesimally remote that Swarbrick would be able to counter UM's hiring of Harbaugh with a hiring of a candidate with similar statue and credentials.
This would be a bad, ba thing for ND football, and there's no sense denying it.
And Harbaugh has won everywhere he goes.
Even if he flames out at Michigan after 6 or 7 years, they would still have a solid 5 years of excellence to build on.
Stanford is just now coming down from the lift he gave them and he's been gone for a few years now.
a topic being "germane" is a concept that only applies when it suits him.
"A resurgent UM will certainly diminish the stature of ND's football program." Sounds eerily familiar to the Michigan coaching post you chastised several days ago as meaningless drivel unbefitting Rock's. Oh how quickly things change.
I was on the receiving end of that hypocrisy in the first instance.
If there was an opening.
Curious to hear your thoughts?
If that was true, not sure what has changed that would cause ND to not reach out to him now.
And he would be a dream choice for me. If ranking my ultimate desires for ND's next coach, he would fall only behind Saban.
I'm a 49ers fan, and while this year is disappointing, his overall tenure has been very impressive, especially since they had a very long and mediocre coaching run since Seifert left. Any discussion of other professional coaches and how they may adapt to college is best left to another thread, but it's a moot point anyway as Harbaugh has already proven that he can perform at a high level in college, especially at one of the few schools that actually has some restrictions. His recruiting style unfortunately lends itself particularly well to UM's traditional successful focus (as it would to ND, and I'd have no problem matching Michigan's offer in a perfect world), as he built a physical, smashmouth team at a wine & cheese school of all places.
I posted this in a prior thread, but I am honestly shocked that our big donors who have been highly successful in their careers tolerate mediocrity in the one sport that is a pillar of ND. I don't like guys like Knight & Pickens buying teams, but the unfortunate fact is that they can be a huge asset, along with folks like Arillaga, Jamail, Bryant Jr. As other posters have mentioned, our admin seems to be concerned about the perception of "wasting" money on an elite coach, even though a good coach would be an investment that more than pays for itself and is actually cheaper than buying out failed ones like we've done. Nearly every traditional power save ND, UM, and Nebraska has bounced back from prior coaching futility, and if UM getting Harbaugh isn't a wakeup call to our decision makers, I'm not sure what is. That said, I fully expect the status quo to continue, but if it took creating some Seamus McRichpants Director of Football title like Stanford did to get a rich donor to ante up, that would be completely fine with me.
I think Harbaugh is an arse and half crazy, but he produces tough football teams that win. Perfect fit for a Midwest team.
He'll implode at some point, but that might not be for another 10 years.
I would happily take him at ND despite the baggage. I would happily take Meyer too, and he is an arse who has allowed all sorts of nonsense at UF and OSU (every school's admin sets the boundaries and the coach will generally explore up to the gray areas; ND wouldn't allow such nonsense).
One fun aspect if he gets the UM job is that, given his prior comments, he will have to eliminate the eligibility major where UM hides many of the jocks. Well, either that or admit to being a big hypocrite.
is there any basis for thinking Fitzgerald would be a candidate or are you using him as an example of a less than stellar replacement? I am not tied into the workings of the administration, but even with the hiring decisions of the past 20 years, I couldn't imagine that anyone would think Fitzgerald would be viable. Maybe I am naive.
And explicitly said in my post he's a good coach.
But he's also more than a little nuts, and I don't think that lends itself to a long tenure.
if he goes there. It will take about 4 years minimum for him to wear out his welcome, especially if he wins a NC during one of those 4 years and he is good enough IMO to make that happen at a school like Michigan.
Michigan will still play like they are coached by him for 3 years after he leaves -- just using Stanford as a refernece. The sum is at least 7 years where Michigan will go back to playing quality football.
Holtz only had an 11 year run at ND. I think most of the men on this site would cut off their left nut to get 7 to 9 years of quality coaching again at ND before we die.
...left? He'd been there for four years. Is there any reason to think that he couldn't have been their for four more (or even longer)?
And I would guess Stanford has a lower tolerance for crazy than Michigan would.
With two different (average) coaches.
average coach? I would say his career is certainly better than average.
And I'm not sure why you're attributing Coker's NC to Johnson when it was Butch Davis who built Coker's teams.
He's had mixed results at stops after Miami - most of which weren't entirely that successful. His results at Oregon State were probably less successful than Kelly here at ND, while he's been fired from several other gigs.
The point is that even short stints by great, but polarizing, coaches can have long term impacts on a program.
Harbaugh is the kind of coach that could impact UM years after he leaves.
But I agree w/ everything else you wrote.
If Harbaugh returns to college, he will have his team in the playoff within 3 years.
I think the answer is yes...for the reasons you state in your ironic post.
That being said, he's going to the Bears.
when it comes to Michigan. If Chuck wasn't so lazy, he would have mentioned it.
Hardballs left college because he prefers the NFL. Why reverse field now? Because Kaepernik isn't the man?
"What happens when he loses to Ohio State on a last-second field goal, decides he doesn't like the way Urban Meyer is looking at him, and punches him out? "
That would be fantastic
from retired player and then analyst Jim Kelly. There was a confrontation and I believe Harbaugh ended up with a broken hand. When asked about it, witness Marshall Faulk would only laugh. I don't believe Kelly suffered any obvious injury. It was about the same time Harbaugh was swimming in the religious deep end.
The guy's nuttier than squirrel shit.
guy that the Lions fired, Baltimore and Mt. St. Joseph's own Jim Schwartz. And by Baltimore, I mean Arbutus.
Or is it the other way around?
I think MI is in such a weak spot right now that whoever takes the job will have a tough 2-3 years, and that includes Harbaugh.
The only good sign on recruiting is that Harbaugh is an odd duck. He will pull some recruits, but he may drive others to Saban or Meyer.
fun to watch.
recruiting. Kelly cannot compete with either one of those men and would have his hat handed to him on the recruiting trail.
on the football field due holes in recruiting.
One - I think you may underestimate the craziness of 49ers ownership in making conclusions on the fault of the pending Harbaugh/49ers split. Currently, running the show is a 34 year old, 3rd generation Debartolo. I didn't realize that until recently. I'm guessing York is passionate, but tweeting an apology to fans on Thanksgiving day about a single loss wasn't a strong move.
Two - When Harbaugh-back-to-college rumors swirl, I think of the look on his face when he shook his brother's hand after losing the Super Bowl. That's the face a driven but devastated man. He covets the Lombardi trophy not the bureaucratic nightmare of ESPN's minor league. I agree that Jim is nuts, but I'm not sure if he is crazy like a fox or just plain crazy. The 49ers aren't going to get a better football coach. They may find a better fit, but how many Ws does that get you?
He is the son of Denise DeBartolo, Ed Sr's daughter and Ed Jr's sister.
Eddie Sr. made the family fortune and bought the team (as well as donating for our own DeBartolo Hall and DPAC), and was then followed by Eddie Jr. Eddie Jr's legal issues -IIRC some sort of gambling investigation involving a powerful politician?- forced him to transfer the team to his sister Denise, which eventually led to Jed being in charge.
I think Ross is going to throw a huge check Harbaugh's way.
Speculation first, that wife does not want to leave the West Coast. This whole thing is a ploy to up the ante for the Raiders while lowering the trade value.
As for me, I couldn't care less what happens in Ann Arbor. In fact, Michigan fans could well deserve Harbaugh and what goes with him
with or without the zany, it doesn't matter to me.
I agree with your overall assessment here. But I don't know if I recall ever hearing about clashes with upper management while he was at Stanford. Maybe because he got to run the whole shooting match there there weren't as many issues. Or maybe I just wasn't paying that much attention to him.
his "good game" salutation was genuine.