Tailgating Gestapo Gone Bonkers
Reports from the font lines on the wacky crackdowns on tailgating and seeming abuse of Notre Dame fans inside the stadium. Have the authorities lost their minds?This picture was taken by one of our posters.
Could they look any more ridiculous?
I propose we video tape them back. All students and alumni should have their cell phone cameras and video cameras out next week on the Barney Fifes run amuck, send them to us and we'll edit them together and youtube it for all of NDNation to see and judge. It'll be popular around the country, we know that. To be clear, only the top story relates to this picture, but this is just nuts and out of hand. Someone has to bring reason and perspective back.
"They had the video cameras out yesterday for some reason, perhaps to try to affect retrospective disciplinary action? I'm not sure. When he asked why I was taking a picture of them as they were filming our tailgate's license plate, I replied that it was only because they were filming us. They left shortly thereafter, but they may have been done wasting taxpayer money in that particular area, anyway."
Read this story:
"I am going to speak with an attorney on monday, but right now the situation is the result of me mocking the fact we have mounted tailgating horses. That basically then resulted in a "what did you say to me?" type of situation, in which the mounted cop charged me with his horse, knocking me to the ground. I get up with a resounding "WTF?" and from that point on I was "in the system." Get on the ground, NDSP called in, st joe drunk tank, and well see what comes next."
And this one:
"My buddy's girlfriend tailgated with us before the game. Was drinking diet coke up until about 1PM. Had some beers after that - but nothing crazy. She tripped walking into the stadium and the ushers asked her and her boyfriend if they had been drinking. They replied that they had been, but were not intoxicated. The usher said they could stay if security could determine they were not intoxicated. My buddy kept asking what would determine sobriety and the ushers continually responded that they couldn't tell him that - i.e. no breathalizer result would guarantee they wouldn't get in trouble. My buddy and his girlfriend went to the security office and his girlfriend ended up spending the night in jail.
My buddy said they could have left the stadium and not went to the security office but wanted to stay and watch the game so they agreed to go. After failing whatever test security provided they weren't asked to leave, instead they threw the girl in jail. There are always two sides to every story but she was not publicly intoxicated. This is very scary because it appears that ND could selectively enforce this and probably arrest 40,000 every game if they wanted to.
Unbelieveable - the University needs to take a look in the mirror and stop acting like this."
And this one from in the game:
"early-ish in the game, a friend (a graduate student who doesn't drink anything beyond wine transubstantiated into the Blood of Christ) was standing in the student section and lost his balance on the impossibly-narrow benches. He had to step backwards onto the concrete in the row behind ... just as probably every student does several times every week. Unfortunately for him, he happened to be on the outside of a row just as an usher was walking down it.
The usher, seeing his uncoordinated step, approached him and demanded his ticket book. Confused, the guy complied, and was asked if he'd been drinking. When he answered (rather incredulously, and apparently without bowing first) "no, I just lost my balance" the response was "bullshit" and he was taken down to the security office.
He was run through several sobriety tests (just like you'd see when a cop pulls over a potentially drunk driver), and then was breathalyzed. Seeing as he was telling the truth that he hadn't been drinking, he blew a .000. Frustrated at having been harassed he asked the security people for the usher's name, and was told to mind his own business and "get your ass back to your seat before we throw you out anyway" (that's an exact quote of his words, I can't swear whether it's a direct quotation or a paraphrase).
He got back just in time for halftime ... having missed almost the entire first half."
Obviously, these are not isolated incidents, but part of an orchestrated campaign. The number of stories pouring in is disturbing, but this story is really sad.
Someone with power and guts needs to step up and do something and quick.
88 Comments:
My wife and I were not at the game Saturday, but we will be this coming week for the Stanford game. We are not tailgaters, but I certainly have no problem with those who do...as long as they are not obviously drunk causing problems as a result. Tailgating at football games is as American as apple pie. Based on what has been written, if it is correct, steps need to be taken by the Notre Dame Administration to reign in the NDSP and/or those who are responsible. The girl referred to in The Rock Report should hire a good attorney who is a ND Law grad.
I'm glad this topic is getting attention because things are in a police-state-like mode. I'll add my own instance from yesterday. A female 60 year old guest of our tailgater walked from our gathering to the bathrooms with a Bloody Mary in her hand. She was stopped outside of the Joyce Center by Security and asked if her drink contained alcohol. When she replied that it did, they took it from her. So the University's policy covering this situation appears to be as follows: Consuming alcohol pre-game is permissable provided that you don't attempt to walk with your drink.
This is ridiculous. I hope ND wakes up. While the team is getting better, they don't exactly have the best product in the world on the field. There is a reason ND had trouble selling out two of its home games this year. I hope that NDF remembers that the kids they are harrassing today are the same ones that they will be soliciting for donations later. I hope that Fr. Jenkins and the rest of the staff realize how silly this is.
The amount of time being spent by the Indiana Excise Police/SBPD/NDSP/etc. trying to "crackdown" on rowdy tailgating is beyond ridiculous. It isn't even rowdy tailgaters that they are harassing, but rather anyone with an alcoholic drink in their hand who just happens to cross their path. The fact that the University condones this draconian behavior is both pathetic and embarrassing. Get your act together ND! If you really were trying to make a welcomig atmosphere for all attending, you'd let adults be adults and let them police themselves. If there's a problem, I'm sure you'll find out about it - otherwise, mind your own damn business. You can't tell me this is an efficient use of taxpayer (SBPD) or University (NDSP) money.
The administration won't care unless this hurts them, either monetarily or in image. The only way to do that is to boycott. Nothing will happen otherwise. If, however, the Notredame Broadcasting Company televises a home game and a huge portion of the student section is empty, it will get their attention. They don't even have to miss the game: just empty one section at halftime and don't come back until a few minutes into the third quarter. You can guarantee national coverage for such an event, and plenty of interviews of people explaining the problem
I made a donation to the annual fund on Thursday evening of last week after a nice chat with a Sophomore from Keenan.
I got a call on Friday that the donation didn't go through because the card number was written down incorrectly.
I'm calling Monday to tell them to tear it up until they demonstrate that this is going to be fixed.
The excise police outside the stadium are one thing. University employees inside the stadium are another.
I also agree that the actions by excise police are an outrageous abuse of power. They roam across the parking lot in a group of 25 or so like roughriders (some of the "female" officers look the part as well). Probable cause used to arrest individuals in essence has no real threshold. My tailgate ran out of beer 2 hours before kickoff. I had one friend arrested after being overheard saying something about a waste of tax dollars. Another friend was cited for what amounted to asking too many questions. As I walked up to the arresting officers to ask with what my friends were being charged, I was threatened by a husky female officer to "Shut up and walk away because talking too much is what got your friend into trouble." Protecting and serving is one side of the argument, but at the expense of something as minor as the ability to express discontent with the workings of a governmental agency is a great injustice.
Bravo to those with the foresight to videotape or photograph these ridiculous antics and bring them to the public eye.
Be careful out there.
I am a 52 year old subway alumni that took my 6 year old daughter to her first ND game and on to Chicago for the sights. After buying a Coke I entered the mens' room. I saw a cop but paid no attention. After I walked out to my waiting daughter the cop grabbed me from behind scaring us both. He demanded my Coke in order to inspect it for alcohol. As he smelled the drink my daughter was panic stricken that "Daddy was in trouble". I had not had a drink in 48 hours but still felt the need to defend myself from this baffoon. It was a humiliating experience in front of my child.
It's time to start boycotting ND football games until this nonsense is stopped. Get those pigs off of my campus.
Who should we complain to. Give us the e-mail address of the person who would handle this and I'm sure a lot of us would fill their in box with complaints.
It's no wonder why ND has little to no home field advantage. Nearly ever other college campus is filled with fans drinking hours before the game. Once in the stadium these fans are 10 times louder than those in ND stadium. I understand that at some places they cross the line but ND is far from doing this. If they want a true home field advantage they need to loosen the reins some. As it is everyone is scared to so much as pass gas let alone cheer loudly. I'm sure the loudest fans in ND stadium end up getting kicked out drunk or not.
Tailgating at ND is not nearly the same experience as it is at some schools. Being from south Louisiana and attending many tailgates at LSU games, going to a ND tailgate for the first time was shocking. Don't get me wrong, everyone around us was great and couldn't be better host, but after observing the huge police presence and the one officer with a video camera, the tailgating went from fun to rather dull. We felt like we were being watched the rest of the day. How can you really get into the spirit of game day? I love everything about ND, but the police presence was rather lame, and in my opinion overkill.
was grabbed by an usher last year during one of the home games - after losing my balance walking up the stairs to my seat, just before kickoff (in all honesty, probably drank 4-5 beers in the hours leading up to the game). The usher didn't tell me where I was going, just to come with him. ended up in a security room in the stadium with about 20 other students / young alumi. Everyone was breathalyzed...anyone who blew over a .07 was immediately handcuffed and forced to sign a waiver which in essence banned you from ever returning to campus. Banned from the school my parents and myself paid over $100K to attend!
Eventually we were all paraded to a paddy wagon and carted off to the St Joe county jail. After locking the cell door, the first thing the police officer asked from the group was "a show of hands for everyone who has a credit card".
There were hardened criminals mixed in the cell with us! Several times during the ordeal i noticed police officers laughing at us and the women's cell - several blocks adjacent to ours. One kid I'll never forget...he was from another school - in town to visit his high school friend - an ND Jr. He blew a .08 at the stadium (.01 over the intoxication 'threshold') - was arrested anyway and was absolutely terrified. I was let out at approximately 2am after posting bail...the poor visting kid who blew the .08 thirteen hours earlier was still waiting to be released at that point.
Ended up paying $500 in legal fees to clear my name. What was supposed to be a great weekend at my alma mater turned into one of the worst experiences of my life.
So happy this is finally getting coverage b/c it's awful. The students and alumni don't deserve it and the administration needs to stop it.
Somebody asked for a method to combat this, or at least force the University to do something about it.
Alumni: Contact the Development office. Most of you probably donate to ND, especially because you need to in order to get football tickets. You, like stockholders, should have something akin to voting rights. Exercise the fact that you contribute to our great University, and say something about it. If Development hears enough complaints - especially from big donors - they will listen.
Non-alums: Have a good grasp of the legal situation. SBPD has, in my experience, overstepped their legal bounds. Make sure the cops who go to far get nailed. A cop who mistreated my friends and I was later kicked off the force for similar offenses.
In the meantime, enjoy our great tailgating atmosphere and a great season. Go Irish.
This is the second consecutive week our tailgate has run into the NDSP tailgate nazis. We are all Notre Dame graduate students, all well over the legal drinking age and have been consistently harrased week in and out. This year has been particularly bad and the first time (our group of 40 have been together since we were moved from Blue Field when the road went through) that we've had people threatened and arrested. It really is out of control this year (the older bald cop is most definitely on some kind of towny power trip!)
What is even more ridiculous is that the safety of Notre Dame students every other day of the week seems to be worsening – with little response from the University or the city – while the harassment on Saturdays increases. Where are the University’s priorities?
I am a senior at ND right now and I can't believe how quickly this crap has been escalating. During the Michigan game, I was standing in the rain screaming and cheering for the Irish along with all my friends in the student section. It was a rivalry game, the biggest home game of the year, and as Crum Jr. said, a game to help us win our respect back. The game lived up to its potential and was the most exciting and important home game since UCLA two years ago. On the way back from the stadium, a bunch of students were sliding in the rain-flooded grass on south quad to celebrate the win. I joined in too. When I got up, a NDSP officer came up to me and asked what I was doing. Still basking in the euphoria of the win, I pointed to the other 60 kids sliding in front of South Dining Hall and said “having a little fun”. The NDSP cop showed me his own interpretation of the Notre Dame spirit by grabbing me by the arm and demanding my student ID. When I told him I didn't have it he said I was trespassing. I pointed behind me to the dorm that I had lived in for the past 4 years and told him that I am an ND student. Then he squeezed harder and told me that he was going to take me to the security office. I hadn't been drinking so I wasn't really worried. I thought it was a bluff, but then he told me that he would cite me for "destroying public property." I couldn’t believe how determined this guy was to arrest me for something as stupid as sliding on the grass. He was obviously on a power trip. I decided to cut my losses and tell him I’d stop. Luckily he only gave me some BS tough guy cop talk and let me go. The thing that I am most outraged is not that my $215,000 tuition is going to NDSP cops to harass me outside my dorm about sliding in the grass or their new helicopter, but the mixed messages the university is sending their students. All I have heard about for my 4 years here is how Notre Dame is going to return to glory and be respected on the national level. After the Michigan game, students like me were given an opportunity to honestly buy into this wishful thinking, and take pride in their school. However, it is situations like this and those written above that truly make the ND experience go sour. And I’m not just talking about football. I’m talking about the dorm events, off campus apartments, student organizations, and everything else that goes into the Notre Dame experience. The police should be there to keep us safe, not hunt us down. All I’m saying is if the police let people be people like they used to, there would be a lot less of an “us and them” mentality, and less stress for everybody. We don’t deserve this, and Jenkins decision to purge the parking lots speaks volumes about his true respect for the student body and their families.
As a ND'90 grad I ahv efond memories of winning football games and some of the best tailgating in ND history. The RV lot was the best in college football, but ruined my those who year after year decided to leave their mark on the university by dumping holding tanks and all that went into them. Now the stench is comming from the SBPD and NDPD. The active busting of people without cause is appaulning and the St. Joe Prosecutor's Office is profiting by hundreds of dollars a pop with their easy offering of the Pre-Trial Diversion Program being offered to each and every offender. Every ticket and arrest means money for the Prosecutor. Why ND doesn't see this is beyond me but it needs to stop. To serve and protect should be the goal, not to arrest and collect. Be safe and GO IRISH!
One angle in this whole mess that hasn't gotten enough play is that the increased police presence has to be worsening the town/gown relations. Fair or unfair, the targeting of ND students/grads by local or state cops makes people feel like the town is out to get them. This is further harmed by police seemingly ignoring the crime around campus and in student populated areas, as well as the seemingly "gloating" comments left by townies on message boards after events such as the arrest of Yeatman and Golic.
Last year I had a very similar story. Refused to sign the trespassing warning. Whether or not you sign the ban applies. In my case, the prosecutor dismissed my case upon receiving it even after I had agreed to pre-trial diversion. I suppose my ban still applies since it was issued before any rendering of guilt. Later, I disputed the credit card charge for the tickets I purchased off consignment. The university spent tons of hours fighting me, lied, fabricated stories, and forged signatures fighting me. Make no mistake - this is deliberate, encouraged by the administration, and coordinated with the local authorities. And oh by the way, I led a 4 aircraft national anthem flyover when I was still a fighter pilot in the Air Force back in 04. That wasn't enough to avoid a night in jail last Vets day.
I work as an administrator at another university in Indiana. Thank God that we don't maintain this sort of policy on our campus. We stay away from trying to bust people for violations and are encouraged not to put ourselves in situations where we'd come across any violations. Our security (not a PD) knows where the parties are and stays clear of them unless they are called to assist students. And university employees never turn anyone over to the police. All such things should be handled internally.
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In order to change this, we'll have to hit the administration where they care the most - their wallet. Suggest we begin a wide spread effort of letter writing to the alumni association and program development office. Local clubs would be another place to voice the concerns of a very reasonable alumni.
M. Desrosiers '81
I was helping someone take down their beer pong table after the SS told us to put it away. No one was playing on it when they walked up, but they took down the info of the table's owner. I asked them what they were trying to prevent by not allowing drinking games. I pressed them (politely and soberly) about what games we could play. They never had any logic to the multiple answers I asked, but they did decide that as a student I was responsible for making sure no one played drinking games. My information was taken down and reported to res life. I looked up the rules in DuLac. You can see them for yourselves on page 106 here: http://orlh.nd.edu/dulac/duLac2008.pd
I can elaborate on my questions if the blogger would like it for his record, but I'll leave my post short for now.
Don't get me started....my 21 old daughter was visiting her brother this weekend for the Purdue game. They attended an off campus party which was not rowdy or spilling onto the streets precisely because of their fear of getting busted. In a very short period of time, the SBPD raided the party causing large groups of kids to jump off the balconies to order to prevent arrest. I keep reading ridiculous stories about the "Police Department Gone Wild" and don't understand why the University hasn't stepped up to confront this issue. It's a joke...
Several years ago I was tailgating after the game. I had been drinking all day and I was highly intoxicated. NDSP approached our group and I ran. They caught me and I went through the ResLife process. Their report stated that they found me passed out on a curb with my pants around my ankles. I said that wasn't true because I was with a group of people and I ran. I couldn't be passed out or have my pants around my ankles and still be able to run. So, they just scratched that whole part from the final report like it written there on accident. It's like they were just trying to see what I could remember. Unlike a lot of posters, I was not only underage, but really drunk and I deserved a citation. However, I did not deserve a police report full of embarrassing lies.
EVERYONE IF YOU WANT SOMEONE TO WRITE TO EMAIL CAPPY GAGNON WHO IS THE STADIUM SECURITY/USHER PROGRAM DIRECTOR. HIS EMAIL IS rgagnon@nd.edu
Also like others have said that everyone should contact the alumni office and your local chapters. Being at every game, it has been getting worse each game. Everyone needs to go to Gate E (student gate) and see how they are treated by the ushers and the police. Its sad to see this "awesome" program let the police treat people this way.
This is all about class warfare. There has always been a certain amount of jealousy and resentment toward ND on the part of townies. I am sure that many of these cops love putting the hammer down on "rich" Domers.
We tailgate in a close by (to the stadium) lot that used to be a high demand parking area.
We now see a large number of open spaces on game day, right up to kick off.
Maybe the effect of the patrols is showing.
The group of 8 or 9 wandering officers is downright intimidating to any tailgaters. We happen to have a group of students at the tailgate (none drinking) and the cops just stand and stare waiting for a "false move". You would think its not the kind of atmosphere that ND would want to promote on what is supposed to be a fun filled day of football and friends.
By the way how can carrying a drink into Joyce be against the rules. What if you by your drink in Joyce and walk out with it?
I don't remember seeing any signs in Joyce telling you to stand still in one spot while you consumed your beverage.
Having never attended Notre Dame.
Having never attended a Notre Dame game at Notre Dame stadium.
Having never had any contact with the South Bend Police or the NDSP, from everything I have read and heard about this problem it appears to me to be a case of simple jealousy.
Sort of reminds me of the cutters vs the students in Breaking Away.
After all here it is a beautiful fall morning and Barney Fife, who probably never completed his underwater basket weabing course at his local jc, has to be on campus with a bunch of out of control, smart ass, doctors, lawyers and other graduates of one of the finest institutions of education in America, if not the world.
Poor Barney Fife and his Apple Dumpling Gang getting paid so little to put up with all you hooligans.
comments should be aimed at the administration, they have hired and are the source of income for this security. remember, this is private property - the only way they would be there is if NOTRE DAME requested them as some type of crowd control.
comments should be aimed at the administration, they have hired and are the source of income for this security. remember, this is private property - the only way they would be there is if NOTRE DAME requested them as some type of crowd control.
THIS IS ALL THE UNIVERSITY folks. the city doesn't pay these guys on their time off, ND does!
My sister was breathalyzed because cops saw her holding a red cup. By the time they got there she had set it down so they had no idea what was in it. They breathalyzed her anyways and she blew a 0.007 (not a typo) they cited her for minor in possession.
Whats wrong with you people....
Tailgating is great BUT...too much drinking leads to drunk driving which leads to people getting killed in traffic accidents. Those are REAL criminals! GO IRISH..keep up the good work.
Some ND film students should follow around and film the gestapo and should also film the activites at Gate E. Put the video on youtube or send it to foxnews, etc. as evidence of police brutality. ND hopefully would be forced to act - ND hates bad press.
Please stay on this! I personally witnessed these guys in action in Joyce South two years ago. Can a Freedom of Information Request be filed to obtain copies of the videos?
Here's an idea: try behaving responsibly and you won't have any problems. It always amazes me how people who have allegedly been "harrassed" by the authorities always claim they were just sitting there quietly, reading the bible, when a cop comes out of nowhere and arrests them for doing nothing. Yeah, riiiiight... The university has a right to protect the safety of everyone on its property, as well as the property itself. The bottom line is, if you're behaving responsibly you will never have a problem with law enforcement. If you want to act like an idiot you will have a problem with law enforcement, period.
There is nothing that angers me more than people who take inconsequential jobs with a level of seriousness normally reserved for discussions of nuclear terrorism, except for people who use said job as a the basis for a Napoleonic power trip.
I wish the ushers and the excise police would realize the horseshit nature of their jobs and direct their attention to actual problems: in the case of the SBPD, the fact that the Bend is a shithole with disproportionate levels of both violent and petty crime.
This all stems from the Head of the Ushers Cappy Gagon. He has this bust them mentality. In his world he thinks the Administration notices him more by the number of incidents he reports. The man is a true idiot. Ex Los Angles Police officer if that tells you anything.
I believe that Hitler has returned and is hiring the ushers and security people around the stadium. I am the relative of a player and prior to the Michigan game had to go to the Gug to pick up an envelope from the front desk, only to be left standing outside in the rain as the security person's at the door insisted that said envelope was not at the desk, "because they know everything that has been left at the desk". Upon arguing with Hitlers SS, a young lady emerged through the door, and said she will check for me. She was back in less than 30 seconds with my envelope and was very apologetic. She of course works for the football program. This weekend cosisted of being harrassed going into the game at the stadium will call office, by the SS. I was treated like a welcome guest at East Lansing last week while wearing full ND garb. Do these people hate us or what. Who is training Ushers and security at ND. Last name has to be Hitler.
I Have been tailgating for the last decade. dad for decades. The problem this year has seem to caught back on fire from the last couple years. have not seen the amount of force like this since about 04/05 seasons. We park in the employee lot and the last 2 weeks 2 people have been cuffed walking by us. We stood there and saw everything with that guy recording the suspect just stand there as they talked. He didn't look to be causing any problems at that time. We just told everyone where we were to not talk back and just do what they say and do NOT cause attention to ourselves. lets all have a good time and respect everyone. Go Irish!
Listen to the other top 10 teams stadiums and watch them. they are loud and in charge. Everyone is disappointed in the irish, until lately. I'm tired of being told to sit down because people can't see. stay home to sit and watch. Come to Notre Dame Stadium to stand cheer and root on the the blue and gold. just dont be a drunk idiot.
Phil, you evidently have not attended a game at ND. If you did you'd know how over the top the police are in the lots. Sure there are some people that are too drunk, but I've seen and heard too many stories regarding cops on power trips at ND.
I had the unfortunate displeasure of encountering these parade of clowns on Saturday as well. As they all slowly strutted around with their chests puffed out, I had a conversation with my friend at our tailgate that was very similar to the discussions going on here. I was commenting on how ridiculous the degree of seriousness that was being taken and how painfully obvious the 'intimidation' factor was trying to be implemented from the pack of 12 officers, plus the bonehead walking around with the camera.
Keep in mind, they were probably about 30 yards away when I started talking to my friend and eventually they decided to park themselves right next to our tailgate as they investigated somebody else's. Still talking to my friend one of them, obviously not happy with my opinion, told me to move away or I would be arrested.
When I told him that I was having a private conversation, in a very condescending tone he sarcastically questioned as if I was even a student here based on whatever inaccurate visual judgment he must have passed on me. I responded that I actually had graduated already to which he quickly went back to explaining that if I didn't move away or take my conversation elsewhere I would be arrested. He said that it's private property, I needed to shutup, and move along.
I have to admit that was a really somber moment for me. Not even bothering with pressing the issue, I smiled, shook my head, and walked away.
So after thousands of dollars in tuition and personal debt, four years of being part of the greatest school in the country, I had been shunned by some halfwit that I was on private property like some hooligan in a corn field being chased off with a farmer's pitchfork.
Heaven forbid the city/administration don't collaborate to help conduct safe walks or help monitor students walking back to their off-campus residences after the bars close. I sure would have loved 12 officers, including one with a camera, when me and my friends were held at gunpoint and robbed. The only advice the police gave us was that we shouldn't walk home and that the streets of South Bend are so unsafe that even a 5-minute walk warrants a 30-second cab ride.
I can realistically go on and on with some of my own experiences and that of other students I attended school with... But I really hope that this isn't some flash in the pan and that action is SERIOUSLY taken. I'm currently in the process of looking into seeing what role I can actively pursue to fix what has already become an incredibly alarming issue.
...I was ridiculed last week after the 42 person arrest at a private home when I compared the South Bend police to Mississippi cops in the '60s...maybe you'd believe me now...huh?...
Having been in and around ND stadium for almost 20 years, I've certainly seen some of the best and worst days. And this past couple of years have been some of the worst. As an ND student, I can remember drawing crowds at tailgates with our beer funnel and drinking games - and the police laughed at us. The worst thing that ever happened was that one of the NDSP took our beer bong away. Today, I see SBPD AND NDSP out of control. It does need to be stopped. It seems like in the last 10 years, everything good / fun has been stripped away at ND. SYR's, camping out for tickets, parties, traditions, etc....and now TAILGATING? It's truly sad and it definitely sterilizes the life and the unique experience at ND. But as all of you write, I would ask one thing. The whole "townie" finger pointing is inaccurate and uncalled for. Speaking as both an ND grad and someone from South Bend, it's really obnoxious for any ND student to say things like that - unless you just think you're better than someone based on where their / your family is from. Most importantly, you have to be stupid to think that a majority of the nearly 100,000 out there tailgating on a game day are ND students, alumni or staff. A vast majority of those "townies" are out there getting harassed, too. Those "townies" have football tickets and have been out there much longer than most of you - and they will be there supporting ND well after you leave. And I guarantee they hate the police and security antics as much as you. So please direct this at the right people and be above the name calling and generalizing of every person in South Bend. This is a police problem - one which almost every city complains about in one way or another. We should be smart enough to attack this properly and avoid the ignorance. You'll enjoy the city much more if you don't hold your nose up as you walk through it.
We left the Michigan game, and walked over to Legends for dinner. The doors were guarded by 3 police on horseback. I walked up to the left ramp, and was ordered to go the other way. I went the other way, and was ordered to go farther. I didn't even see the line formed on the far side due to the horses, but neither officer spoke in anything approaching a friendly tone. Little did I know I was so close to jail time. We turned and walked back to our cars. We are donors, so I will consider withholding until this is resolved.
The person who said you won't be bothered by the police as long as you're acting in a responsible manner is dead WRONG! If you even "look" like you've been drinking regardless of how you're acting or if you're of legal age you can be harrassed and asked to take a breathalizer test. You can accidently stumble on uneven ground and be hauled off for a breathalizer test. This is absurd!! As long as you're of age to drink and you're not loud and obnoxious, argumentative, stumbling around, or otherwise acting in an intoxicated way then you should be left alone!! All of us who love ND and all it stands for need to take action and stop this gestapo mentality!!
By the way, I'm 61years old, only have a glass of wine periodically, but do suffer from allergies that make me have red bloodshot eyes this time of year, and guess what....I was accused of being drunk because my eyes were bloodshot. Not only are the ushers and police gestapo like, they are extremely rude. If you're a lawyer in South Bend you should be getting plenty of business!!
My friend, who is a donating alum, was walking into the stadium after tailgating all day. He was by no means wasted. After walking into the game on his way to the seats, an usher stopped him and asked him if he had been drinking. He had, but he didn't think it was a big deal. The usher said he looked drunk. He got breathalyzed and blew a .09. We still can't figure how he looked drunk, except for the fact that he has a lazy eye. He was then carted off to jail, where he spent the night. He also was banned from university property for life. He is part of a prominent university family, so I will be interested to see how this all turns out. I know he had people on the phone last night. My friend said his family is threatening ending donations, unless all this nonsense stops. I think we all need to petition for the firing of bill kirk and poorman. They are not exhibiting the spirit of notre dame; they are too worried about protecting their own asses and pleasing the community. They are alienating alumni and taking away many of the things that made ND special.
We need to set up a sting or two. Wire a few people who are stone sober and get a couple of video cameras from afar on the incidents and force the issue. Anyone with family attorneys in the state of Indiana, this is what is needed. I have no problem with law enforcement, it is needed to maintain order. But abuse of power and acting inappropriately as an officer of the law, is as unacceptable and belligerent behavior by a drunk.
This is embarrassing on the university and I hope it comes to a stop. Honestly, though, I didnt have any problem during Michigan(sucks) weekend. I was walking from FOG to the stadium with an open bottle of Dundee's and another closed one in my hand and passed a number of cops. No one said anything to me.
I am not a Notre Dame grad - but have been to a game there - and enjoyed it. This behavior by the campus and local police is incredible, despicable - and obviously encouraged by the administration....It has now moved in to town - and students are being harassed and victimized by the illegal activities - of law enforcement!
The only thing that will change this is a change at the top - of the University. I have to ask – with local police, campus security and an administration behaving like this- who would want to go to Notre Dame? It is quite obvious the University not only condones this police brutality – they ENCOURAGE it.
I say - Remove YOUR President.
the students need meet with the power that is enforcing this fiasco to come up with some type of solution If that doesn't work then they need to make some type of comment/silent protest. whether it's following these guys around and filming them(youtube) or wearing bags over their head during the game where it will be on national TV. Remember, ND prides itself on image - and not an embarrassing one.
I have had a couple experiences with South Bend's finest at football games. I am currently a 22 year old senior and had my second run in with the police at the stadium. My first time was last year a week before my 21st birthday, where I was plucked from the student section by the ushers because the student behind me had a flask. Apparently, being in the same area as this person made me guilty by association, and I was taken to the drunk tank. The police told me that if I blew and cooperated I would be allowed to return to my dorm -I blew as requested and hit a .07. I sat there for awhile and asked politely a couple of times when I would be allowed to return to my dorm and they said "soon". I was cuffed soon after like I was some sort of criminal threat, and politely told the officer cuffing me that I had been told I would be able to return to my dorm. He replied, "I don't care who the fuck told you that...you are mine now". Needless to say, I spent the night in jail and about $1,000 later it is off my record.
During the game this past weekend, I was standing near a pretzel stand with 3 of my friends when two cops that looked younger than me told me to show them my ID. After my experience last year I was in no mood to get taken advantage of again - so when I was asked to give him the ID I cooperated and chuckled. I said "Don't worry I am definitely 21, but my question is are both of you even 20?" and "Can people actually be arrested for trying to purchase food?" I was glared at and told to be quiet, while I continued to chuckle to myself. They handed my ID back, and as I walked away I thanked them for having their priorities in good order - catching underage drinkers should definitely be #1 in an otherwise perfect community like South Bend, and I wished them luck on their weekly narcotics...I mean...underage drinking sting operation of student parties in the area.
When I tell folks this story many think it is a joke or an exaggeration but based on what I'm seeing here it is obviously not. My brother and I (a now not so proud 1988 Alum and formerly a passionate lifetime fan) were literally taken from our seats without so much as a warning in the 1st qtr of the San Diego State game and escorted to a room where we had to submit to a breathalyzer and after registering positive for alcohol cuffed and hauled to county jail for 12 hours with what seemed like close to 50 other unlucky fans, who all eerily spoke of similar stories. I was literally cuffed and locked by myself in a dark approx 3’ x 3’ x 4’ metal cage during the transport to jail while my brother was cuffed and transported along with others, some lying in fetal positions on the metal floor of the police wagon. Before being transported, we were all stripped of any personal items and our shoelaces were removed and my belt was physically cut off my shorts. We were subjected to verbal abuse by some members of the SB Police at times throughout the evening. The topper is that in order to be released, we were forced to sign a criminal trespass notice promising never to return to University property forever!!!!!!!! This was forced on us and told it was a non negotiable condition of release from prison. After being there for 12 hours, I would have agreed to almost anything let alone this. This only had to be agreed to by alums or others; the incarcerated students there did not have to agree to this I guess. As far as ND is concerned, I guess you can forget about any kind of due process in the legal system.
To my recollection and my brother’s, the only thing we remember from the game doing that would have warranted any kind of security attention was that we would get up and yell loudly, admittedly even crazily, for the Irish Defense on critical 3rd down situations, as I have since being a child through being a student and alum, ignoring what recently seem to be the usual down in front shouts from behind us. We would many times implore the folks around us to do the same, usually to no avail. Our feelings are that we did nothing to even out of the ordinary to warrant even being approached by security and if we had, might a verbal warning been sufficient?
I called Bill Kirk's office the next day because his name is on the trespass warning served by the University and asked him directly if the punishment received was just a little severe. The response given was that "we all make personal choices in life and the treatment received that day at ND and South Bend was the result of poor decision making on our part". William Kirk went on to say that in his mind "the behavior exhibited by ND Fans; casual fans, Alums, and students alike every game day is horrible and needs to be stopped. Those that attempt to ruin the 'family atmosphere' will be dealt with severely"
Does anyone out there truly believe that a violation of an alcohol policy warrants being locked in a cage, jailed for 12 hours, stripped of any kind of humanity or dignity, and subjected to a lifetime ban and threat of criminal trespass? Apparently ND does.
I returned to SB for my court date. I was told that all charges have been dropped by the prosecutors office!!!
The charges being dropped is fortunate but my life has been forever changed. The shock and sadness have morphed into extreme bitterness. ND has decided to cut me out of it's family forever. The last play of ND football I witnessed was a 3rd down play in the first quarter of the SD State. Unfortunately, it may in fact be my last.
At least, you got your charges dropped. I could not make it to South Bend for my court date, and after paying fines and lawyer fees of close to a thousand dollars. The prosecuter refused to drop the charges. By the way, I am also banned from ND for life.
Phil,
Please read the following story posted by Indiana Irish on the main board, and then apologize to everybody for your embarrassingly stupid comment.
*************
"I never mentioned it, because I believed it was just a fluke instance of usher and police stupidity, but after reading here for the last day or so, it appears my experience is becoming the norm at Notre Dame.
For clarity, and those who don't know, I was wounded severely by a grenade blast in the invasion of Fallujah, Iraq. The right rear base of my skull ruptured internally, and I was left (after surgeries) with around 19 bone fragments in the lower parts of my brain, which are responsible for horrible vertigo and headaches most all of the time.
Anyway, twice since 2005 I've been able to get my doctors to clear me to go visit Notre Dame to see a football game. I got to see the green jersey ND / Army game in '06 and the Duke game last year. (On a completely irrelevant note, I've seen 12 ND games in person in my life. We're 12-0 in those games. You're welcome.)
I had one of my former soldiers from Iraq in town visiting, and managed to get tickets last minute to take him to the Duke game.
We got stuck in traffic, and missed tailgaiting completely, getting into the stadium with little time to spare. I'm not medically allowed to drink, and my buddy didn't have any time to do so, so we were stone sober. I did, however, have my prescribed vertigo pills in their official medical container from the VA in my coat pocket, and I had checked with the Usher at my gate to ensure it was ok as I was entering. I had explained my condition, and the need for the medication, and was thanked for my service, and told it was perfectly ok.
Fast forward to middle of the third quarter on a drizzly cold night, and probably getting a bit too excited about Robert Hughes' big game, and ND actually looking competant, and my vertigo issues flared up, and I was swooning a bit just as an Usher and a policeman were correcting some folks behind us about pushups in the stands. The policeman notices that I'm 'intoxicated', and grabs me from behind by the neck (not real forcefully)and spins me around to face him. Couple things here. First, my neck is seriously screwy from the impact against the concrete wall in Iraq, so it hurt badly. Secondly, vertigo and being spun do not mix well, and I proceeded to vomit on his shoes.
He was not pleased, and hauled me physically into the concourse, where the pills took a dive out of my pocket, and the guy started accusing me of drug use. I was still busy throwing up, so I wasn't able to explain anything different.
My former soldier was furious about the way I was being treated, and lost his temper trying to explain my condition to the officer. The ND usher made a radio call sometime in this, and three more officers came and detained him.
I was finally able to speak as the officer moved to handcuff me, and told the initial officer to check the label of my medication, that I was a disabled veteran, and that my condition was flaring up, and I needed my medication to prevent it, and that he had made it worse by jostling me all over the stadium. He seemed to act as if I was full of shit, but the ND usher called it in over the radio, and apparently my gate usher spoke up that I had showed the pills at the gate, and my ID matched the label, ect.
The usher and the police walked off and had a huddle, and when they came back, the bad cop riff was replaced with falling all over themselves niceness and respect. My friend was released, and the ushers offered to take us down and find us a spot in the gold seats for the misunderstanding.
But by that time, I was horrendously sick, and my friend was no longer in the mood to be anywhere near Notre Dame, so we left the campus.
The story isn't probably any help to anybody, since I was too ill, and my friend was too hot-headed to even think about badge numbers or tunic numbers or anything to identify anyone or help the cause, but I wanted to share it now, since it's relevant to the discussion in some way.
This time of year, I'm usually pestering the doctors about allowing me to go back to ND to see the Irish play. Not this year, nor probably any year in the future if my wife has anything to say about it. She constantly reminds me that the officer could have dropped me on my head and killed me.
She's not much of an Irish fan anymore. She dimed ND out to my doctor as well, so I probably wouldn't ever get medically cleared to go again if I did try. I still thank God every time I think about it that she wasn't with me that day. She'd have probably clawed out an officer's eyes or something in defense of me, and done hard time for it.
Ah well, enough of that. I'm rooting for you guys to crush this bullshit from the bottom of my heart."
Paul P
Purdue can really tail gate. My hat is off to them. They were able to beat ND. &, no doubt, we lucked out...thanks to the student body & the band, & the entire stadium, I heard us cheering...
I'm of two minds after reading this thread (I haven't been to a game yet but will be at Stanford this weekend and, so, am forewarned).
On the one hand, I agree with those who advise moderation and responsibility. If you're creating a disturbance due to your drinking, you can expect to get tagged.
On the other, there's enough here to suggest that disturbance and public intoxication aren't the problems, but rather the presumption that any behavior even slightly out of the ordinary is being used to justify extreme measures.
One wonders. Last year, at the MSU game, one of those catering carts came barreling down one of the sidewalks at me and some friends, one of whom moved into me, causing my foot to go to the edge of the sidewalk, where it collapsed and I fell down, having re-sprained it. I limped around the rest of the day but, from what I'm reading, had NDP or SBPD seen me fall, they might have tagged me for intoxication.
This is sad on so many levels. When I was an ND student (we're talking 25+ years ago) campus security wasn't like this. I recall one time a friend threw an impromptu, and unauthorized, "F. Scott Fitzgerald Party" in which we all rolled up our pants and waded into the Library reflecting pool. When Security came we all scattered, and in the process I managed to clothesline myself on a branch. The Security guy found me and I thought I was nailed; instead, he made sure I hadn't hurt myself and sent me on my way. The emphasis was on student safety, not throwing people in the jug.
Sounds like things have changed. In the years since, I've had experience of small-town cops, and I'm not impressed. Generally, they're people who tried to get into larger departments (Chicago, Indianapolis, maybe ISP) but couldn't because they were too dumb/angry/violent, so they end up in small town departments. Yeah, it's a generalization, but you'd be amazed how often it holds true - especially when the commanders tolerate or encourage such behavior.
So I'll be watching myself come Saturday. Not that I ever drink that much, but even to avoid the appearance of drinking. Perhaps I'll hook up a discreet IV line....
EVERYONE HERE:
MONEY TALKS.
I work at Development at ND. If enough donors PERSONALLY call the development office, they will speak to someone who will make sure their voices are heard.
I don't care if you give $5 or $5,000, just do it. You are the university's lifeblood, and if you're tailgating and not being an idiot (which I suspect most of you aren't) you don't deserve this BS.
Let's go Irish. Show the administration we won't take this anymore. Then Charlie and the boys will show the rest of the world that ND's back.
I, too, was arrested walking into the stadium. I had tailgated during the day with my old college roommates. I was not by any means very drunk, but I had been drinking. While I was walking to my seat, my sandal slipped off. As I bent down to pick it up, an usher grabbed me and pulled me down the steps. He said I was drunk, because I could not walk. He then handed me over to police. I was then breathalyzed and thrown in stadium jail. I was visiting with friends from out of town, who had never been to ND before. They watched me get carted off, and they had no idea what else to do. I was then told if I signed the trespass warning I would be released. As I walked out of the stadium thinking I would be free to go home, I was grabbed by a cop, handcuffed, and thrown in a paddywagon with several other alumni. I spent the night in jail until my father was able to get there to bail me out, since I had no credit cards on me. Now that I am never allowed to return to ND, there is no way I will ever support that school again. I have never heard of a school treating their alumni as ND does.
I knew Cappy when I was a student there, and I never caught anything but "nice person" from him...
Maybe I'm just an old fashioned, Irish Catholic Domer, but even if someone is being a loud, drunken idiot, so what?! It's football! Tailgating should be a guilt-free, POLICE-FREE event.
Leave the sober people alone, of course, but also leave the drunk people alone! It's not like being loud at a college football game is a "problem." The biggest problem at ND games is that the crowd sits on their hands like they were listening to the Sunday Homily.
People shouldn't drive when they are drunk, but to my knowledge, going to a football game and screaming your head off isn't akin to operating complex machinery.
And if being on campus with a +0.07 BAC constitutes "trespassing," then let's go ahead and breathalyze everyone in Corby Hall on a weeknight.
As a student i can tell you that this attitude in not unique to the football games, but this over-exhuberance has become characteristic of the SBPD and excise police for everyday life. I was at the party last weekend that found will yeatman and mike golic "guilty". The stories of cops on their high horse sound eerily familiar to that night. I found the situation to be absurd and compeletely overblown.
And to go along with the theories posted, I believe this is about money. Every single person was arrested that night, even people who were 21! After going through hours of bullshit a cop finally came to our cell and said "alright anyone with a credit card is free to go."
Maybe this will help:
We (UF) and any other D1 FB program that catches wind of this story, will gladly use it to pursuade any potential blue-chippers conidering our school vs. Notre Dame, to chose our school over Notre Dame.
...better to graduate from a slightly less academically prestigious school with out a criminal record, than to graduate from Notre Dame with a criminal record!
...and for non-scholly students, we can add:
"...--and save HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS in the process!..."
b/t/w: I'm not trash talk'n here; you know that's exactly how this will play out; suggest volunteering that aspect to the Admin, as you voice your complaints to the administration.
....and DEFINITELY hold off on donations...suggest establishing a pool of withheld funds--$$$ that would have gone to ND if and when the issue is satisfactorily addressed, but withheld until such time...
As the pool of $$$ grows, so does the clout it carries.
'92 Gator
To the guy who said his sister was cited after blowing a .007 (and you noted that that wasn't a typo), my DA friend has told me that breathalyzers have an error rate of .01. It might be worth looking into if you want to challenge it.
I think I will save my $500 bail money,plane tix, hotel, food, rental car and the Friday/Monday off from work and watch the game here on my 52" samsung in Florida to avoid the tailgating mess up there. Sounds like SBPD is making some extra dollars by over-stepping a little bit!
These are the types of stories that come up when you beat a team whose only victories are against N. Colorado and Central Michigan. The only thing ND nation is good at is bitching and moaning. Get over it.
Don't forget Wisconsin
Screw ND Security Police. They were wanker cop wannabees in the 90's and it appears they still are. ND will never get another dollar out of me...
Everybody who feels strongly about this, here are links to contact the excise police, SBPD, and school administration.
Flood their inboxes. Do whatever it takes.
Excise Police District 1: http://www.in.gov/atc/isep/2461.htm
SBPD: sbpd@southbendpolice.com
Office of Fr. Jenkins: http://president.nd.edu/contact-us
I've been to every game this season, and to several tailgates, and honestly haven't seen anything even remotely like what has been described here. But these stories are extremely disturbing, and I hope that those who have posted their first-hand accounts here will be willing to take the time to write a letter (not an email) setting out the facts of their encounters with unreasonable police/security/usher personnel. Make sure to include the relevant details -- your age, your affiliation (if any) with ND, how much you have donated to date, and your positive experiences attending ND home games in the past. Then explain exactly what happened, including as many relevant details as possible. If you have copies of any citations or credit card receipts, include them as well. Then explain that you will cease any further donations (or whatever you've decided to do) until the situation improves. Send copies of the letter to whichever university office you think appropriate -- the president, head of development, pr office, athletic department, local alumni association, etc.
Emails are fine, but real letters are generally taken more seriously, and are much more difficult to "delete."
We had a bad experience with the Brown Shirts - IN Excise / SBPD last year with a 20 yr old guest at a tailgate tagged for 'minor in posession' - first beer of the day, well in control of his faculties. That would be one thing, but the brutish behavior of the police was way, way overboard. Police state is a mild descriptor. As a result I will no longer donate to the Sorin Society (three year member). I hope this comment list is compiled and delivered to the senior administration.
There is a ton of federal money available to law enforcement for overtime to enforce alcohol related laws.And it comes with quotas.Joe cop can add thousands to his family income if he jumps through the federals hoops.Call your congressman.
I work with an SEC school in their athletic department on gamedays supervising a tailgating spot on campus filled with students/alums/fans. We are specifically instructed not to get involved. We've been through three full-day games (read: night games, all-day partying) this year without incident. The students get funny, wacky, but I have yet to have an incident in my area that would warrant cops being brought in. Every once in a while voices will get raised and then you observe from a distance to see if this is a problem or just some horsing around. I've only ever had to talk to one group of guys about parking in the wrong spot and tailgating on a closed lot and they were all fine enough when I answered a few questions and directed them to another area where they continue the party.
Bottom line, as a police/excise/security/marshal watching what is going on you should keep a presence but never be remembered. You are there to enforce civility and a good time for all involved. Get rid of anyone that is honestly threatening that but otherwise, just keep a distance but make yourself available to help folks out that ask you questions and what not.
all comments and complaints should be directed to the following email, gagnon.2@nd.edu. Mr Gagnon is the head of the prohibitionist movement. I'm also sure his address & number should be in the SB phone book for those who want to discuss this matter.
700 billion endowment, do you think the University give 2 shits about the students, public or anyone else for that matter, SUE the shit out of the university. Notre Dame can not stand bad publicity or someone suing them out of there money. The workers(Staff) get treated like shit and the administration could care less, so if they do not give a shit about their employees why do you think they would care about the students and fans. get real!!!
I went to my first game this past Saturday at ND along with an alumnus. I was told that there were certain parts of campus that we shouldn't openly drink in, but many other spots were ok. Besides almost getting run over by the horse cops after the game I never noticed anything overbearing. Reading all of this I'm really glad that I was a bit too hung over to really have a go at tailgating this weekend because it could have turned out badly.
As a disclaimer, I'm an Ohio State alum who attended school during the drinking crackdown years when President Holbrook essentially nixed all drinking around the stadium. The police presence was noticeable but not overbearing - at least compared to the police state that occurs in Columbus during the big games.
I found things to be quite relaxed, but I'm glad that nothing bad happened to us because we were drinking. Great experience, everyone that we met was very nice and welcoming when they heard it was our first time to South Bend.
I'm not a big ND fan but I support you guys in this. This is a ridicuous overstep of power.
I just graduated in May 2008 and have been tailgating legally since I was a junior. The absurdities that I have witnessed, the harrasment of students, parents, and alumni alike is beyond reason. But let's be serious, most of you only see what happens on game weekends. I can attest that this is something students must deal with all year. SBPD and NDSP along with ResLife (I don't need to name names) are on one big power trip. Stop raiding tailgates and parties while students are getting shot/mugged/harassed on Notre Dame Ave.
The Observer reported this morning that 35 people were arrested at Saturday's game. Given that there were 80,000 folks in the stadium and thousands of others milling about, that really doesn't seem as overbearing as some of the previous posts suggest.
I am a SDSU alumni and was in ND for the football game Sept 6th. As I walked through the parking lot & campus pre & post game in my SDSU colors, do you know how many rude, obnoxious, etc. comments I received? Not a single one! ND fans were nothing but gracious & enjoyable. If there was a big drinking problem at tail gates, I surely would have encountered some type of negative comment from a drunk person. I applaud ND fans for how they treat their guests (although I heard USC fans wouldn't get off so easy). I didn't see anything that deemed this type of treatment of the fans.
I had the misfortune of attending ND with Cappy Gagnon--he was a jerk then--glad to see that things have not changed.
I just want to say that I'm a senior, and I have been tailgaiting at every game this year. I was actually initially surprised when these types of conversations began to circulate, because through my tailgaiting this year - and I have been around plenty of drunk people - I haven't witnessed a single incident with the SBPD/NDSP/Excise. Then I started hearing stories from friends who were arrested - I actually knew at least 5 people who were arrested at the Michigan game - some of which were absolutely ridiculous. This week the issue has come to prominence on sites such as this, even brought up by a professor in class. As I have been thinking about this a great deal over the past 24 hours, I came to a not-so-startling conclusion. I realized that nearly all of the tailgates I have attended this year have been hosted by quite wealthy Alumni. I actually haven't even seen any police around the tailgates I have been at. I don't know if there are certain areas that only wealthy alumni can get spots at, though I suspect this is the case, but go figure - the University is completely two faced on this issue. So disappointing.
This pisses me off. I'm surprised they are not accusing people of being terrorists. I leaped out of my seat and fell face forward because I was so amped when Blanton had that pick 6. I then got up, and gave someone such a huge high 5 that fell right back down like Glass Joe on Mike Tyson's Punchout. Potentially, that could have been the end of my day. A badly bleeding and bruised leg coupled with a trip to see Ze Germans.
This is bullshit, and people need to respond. The police state will only get worse.
I just want to say "F-ck them!!" Get a life you meatsticks, and I hope they are reading this. I think someone should send them this link.
What the school also needs to realize that the school isn't a lot of fun outside of football weekends unless you are 21.
I love the school, and would have loved the chance to get an education. The kids should be allowed to safely cut loose if not for one day a weekend in the fall.
My message to SBPD is why don't you stop wasting your time busting college kids, and start worrying about the corruption that exists on your police force. Don't deny it.
Giving you the finger as I type,
RB
Have to say how over the top this is... I'm a grad from '88 and wish that ND could use some better judgement with its show of force.
@ Fr.LangeBoy:
Being a "townie" myself I can say that the only "Rich Domers" townies don't like are idiots that think they are better than us because they go to Notre Dame. The school supports quite a few people which we all appreciate, but that doesn't excuse your attitude.
As for the jealousy you assume is the problem, you will note that a huge number of people at the tailgates being harassed are "townies". The fact is that the police aren't jealous of anyone, just on a power trip. Anytime you get a large group of people who THINK they are in charge they will display this type of behavior. It's classic mob mentality. It's not unique to the police, just more annoying.
Most of what's being discussed is about the tailgating, but the most outrageous example of overzealous law enforcement run amuck was the recent raid on a private residence off campus. One could argue that if you're out in the open on campus property consuming alcohol, you more easily come under police scrutiny. But how does one explain over 20 officers surrounding a private residence where there has been no noise complaints from any of the neighbors. John Walters of CBSsports.com reported that neighbors never knew there was a party or gathering going on at the home until all the police cars showed up.
The police entered the house without permission of the girls who were renters, used dogs, crowbars to gain entrance into rooms, arrested everyone, even those who were 21. Many of those there had consumed minimal amounts of alcohol and they all knew their blood alcohol levels because they were forced to take breathalizer tests. Everyone was handcuffed and taken to jail. One of the girls was taken from her bed where she was asleep and was not allowed to get out of her pajamas or get shoes. The students were jeered at the jail and not allowed to use the bathroom. Everyone was asked to put $175 on their credit cards for bail to be released. While the ND students were being processed at the jail the media was notified and a story was published on WSBT2 in the early morning hours. To add insult to injury the university has remained quiet about the treatment of these students. The police said they stopped by the house on a tip, a tip by whom? For those that were minors and consuming why were they handcuffed and arrested? A walking arrest would have sufficed.
So many rights of the students were violated. The administration should consult some of their law professors and get their opinion of how the Notre Dame students were treated rather than keeping their heads in the sand. They need to take control of the out of control police patrolling their grounds and students' residences.
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