Expectations
by Taxman (2017-06-23 07:41:33)
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I don't want this to come off as a slam on Robbie Carmody, so let start there. I'm not a fan of the nut punches, but I trust Mike Brey to keep that in check.

With that out of the way, just think how far the program has come in the last few years. We just got a commitment from a top 100 player, and my immediate reaction is "Well, he will be a nice rotation player. He can add some depth and provide some shooting off the bench." Ten years ago we would have been dancing in the streets over a recruit like this. He would have been projected as a savior.

Now, he is just another guy. He is the fourth top 100 recruit in a row and the one with the lowest composite rating. And Brey doesn't appear to be done.

Now, high recruiting rankings do not guarantee success. See, Francis, Torin and Zeller, Luke. But when all you ever bring in are four star top 50 and top 100 guys, not all of them need to pan out for you to be successful.

I think we are entering a new era. For the rest of Mike Brey's tenure, there should be no more conversations at the start of the season about whether we will make the tournament. The conversations now need to turn to how high will our seed be and will we get over the Final Four hump. That's not to say we might not flame out every once in a while, but that should be a surprising exception rather than the rule.

And it might take time. We aren't going to be so talented that we can overwhelm people. But we are going to be talented enough to contend for Final Four spots when the right circumstances present themselves. With enough at bats we will eventually get a hit.

Fun times.


Great post. Completely agree! *
by UpperEastSideIrish  (2017-06-26 16:04:41)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


you know your program is elite
by irishrock  (2017-06-25 23:01:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

when you can look at the NCAA first/second round games in advance and pretty much be assured that your team will be a top 4 seed which likely means they will be as close to South Bend as possible. i.e. not getting shipped out to Sacramento or wherever.

I say this as a Kansas fan...we always know, barring a really unforeseen event, that KU will be very close to KC...likely Omaha, Tulsa, KC or Des Moines in the first two rounds (cujaysfan will remind me of OKC and Northern Iowa to which I will politely respond with "fu cujaysfan")

Contrast this with a Creighton who never knows if they will make it in to the tourney, much less where they will be sent for the opening weekend.

It's a different level that a program achieves. Congrats to ND on getting there.


fu rock
by cujaysfan  (2017-06-26 14:05:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

the seeding has been more the issue with KU getting to play close to home and the jays hittin' the road.

but - you are right - they aren't in the same stratosphere program wise

and the irish are gettin all Jeffersonian (movin on up).


you know what I mean
by irishrock  (2017-06-27 10:18:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Patton scene, "from one bastard to another"

as an aside, interesting where Patton ended up. I hope he does well, but my comment is that the NBA is a "man's league" and he seems like a kid at the moment. Hopefully he gets the coaching to untap his talents/skills


look out D league
by cujaysfan  (2017-06-27 11:15:15)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

he's gonna be spending some time there

and he's an offensively gifted player - who is now gonna be coached by Thibs - so that will be interesting

his upside is still huge though - and the T-Wolves look kind of stacked - so - they have time to develop him properly

and of course i take no offense...ya bastard


It's now called the G League
by SB Jimbo  (2017-06-27 12:12:58)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Seriously


The timing couldn't be better
by Camarillo Brillo  (2017-06-25 11:14:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Considering the flaming wreckage of the football program. In my opinion, if there is one athletic program at ND that is worthy of a rabid following, it's the men's basketball team.


Coach McGraw would like a word with you *
by Radi-skull  (2017-06-27 19:03:16)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Great to read your reading of tea leaves. Give Brey
by cbo86  (2017-06-23 13:17:10)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

whatever he needs to continue this positive momentum.


Sky is the limit if Off philosophy stays the same
by JBrock18  (2017-06-23 12:13:31)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and the added upper echelon talent provides certain things our teams have lacked in the past. This could be a very fun ride.


Any idea of how long MB will coach?
by JBrock18  (2017-06-23 12:08:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The window that is now open for ND to win is awesome. How many more years do you think MB will coach. I'm asking with the assumption he will stay at ND for life whether that's correct or not.


He's always wanted to be at ND for life.
by PeteatND  (2017-06-23 12:33:01)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

His wonderful mother (RIP) told me so at the 2011 Insight.com bowl. It's just been a question of whether Swarthout would fuck it up or not.

Hopefully, with the practice facility finally coming the fuck online, we won't have to worry anymore.


Great post *
by Stonebreaker9  (2017-06-23 12:37:58)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


He's 58 years old
by Kayo  (2017-06-23 12:23:10)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

K is 70. Boeheim and Steve Fisher are 72. Leonard Hamilton is 68. Roy Williams is 66. Bo Ryan retired at 67.

If Mike Brey wants to keep coaching, another 10-12 years is not hard to imagine. It has taken a long time to get the program where it is now. I hope he wants to enjoy the fruits of his labor.


Ryan's retirement also had other stuff swirling around it. *
by G.K.Chesterton  (2017-06-24 21:23:35)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


FYI re Fisher: He retired in April *
by BroadwayPat  (2017-06-23 13:12:46)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Music to my ears
by JBrock18  (2017-06-23 13:03:53)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Hopefully my son (now 1) can enjoy some great ND hoops runs in his childhood.


Brey is entering his Wooden years. Minus the NCs and Sam. *
by supernd  (2017-06-23 11:54:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Sam was a difference maker, no doubt *
by fbirish  (2017-06-23 12:47:06)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I concur. Well stated. These are happy times. *
by BTFNDGUY  (2017-06-23 11:36:26)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Seconded on all counts. *
by Naughman  (2017-06-23 10:32:10)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


With all of the guards we are in on, I wonder out
by 84david  (2017-06-23 10:17:16)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

loud if Brey told Carmody that other commits were
imminent, and the first guy to commit gets a spot.

I'd like to have Luther Mohammad too. But a big
would be a nice complement as well.


The ACC title and B2B Elite 8s have to be the biggest factor
by irishcane  (2017-06-23 10:03:35)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I am not discounting the practice facility and am very pleased that it's finally coming to fruition. However, IMO, the success on the national stage is the single biggest factor in turning the corner.

I agree with you wholeheartedly regarding the muted reaction to a top 100 recruit. I saw the tweet yesterday and texted alum friends in a group chat where we discuss hoops. Everyone was pleased but no overreaction or talk of a "savior." I used the words "fringe top 100 player" and checked some of the services and corrected myself to "legit top 100 guy."

Getting one of these guys used to be a very big deal. We would heap immense expectations on one individual. Now it's recruit after recruit. Guys can pan or flame out. We know the program is rolling right now. Thank God for the basketball program is the only thing I have left to say.


I agree. Without those the other factors are diminished in
by Tim Kelley  (2017-06-23 12:18:49)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

their importance.


I think you are underestimating the practice facilities
by pmoose  (2017-06-23 10:09:00)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Even as recently as the last year or so, we have lost recruits that mentioned that practice facilities at ND was at least part of the factor in choosing somewhere else over ND.

Is the recent success in post season or the practice facility coming to fruition more responsible for the recent success IMO? I'm honestly not sure... I think are both big influences.


Staff
by buckroe  (2017-06-24 10:43:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The underestimating in this thread is with regard to our two new assistant coaches. Except for Section 12 in his post below, no one has mentioned Humphrey and Ayers. Recruiting is about relationships. Yes, post-season success, facilities and Brey's coaching style as it relates to application of Golden State's principals have all had an effect on recruiting. But if you are ranking the most important factors, I submit that our new assistant coaches should be much higher on the list.


I agree
by El Kabong  (2017-06-24 16:04:31)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But I also think you cook better with good ingredients.


The last 2 commits...
by BigNDfan  (2017-06-23 15:58:38)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

have mentioned the excitement around the facilities.


Underestimating conference affiliation, as well.
by Naughman  (2017-06-23 10:57:08)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The ACC is the premier basketball conference in the country right now, and ND's status in it is steady and increasingly prominent. Swarbrick deserves criticism for dragging his feet on the practice facility, but the move to the ACC has been a boon for Brey. Better fit for him in style of play and right in his wheelhouse w/r/t recruiting. The geographic spread is a nice feature, too -- Durham (or maybe his coach) specifically mentioned the benefit of playing some games in Florida close to his home.


The Elite 8's and ACC title gets them to visit.
by bleedsgreen04  (2017-06-23 10:10:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And the practice facility seals the deal. At least that's my humble opinion.


I think that's a good synopsis *
by El Kabong  (2017-06-23 13:26:03)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Some thoughts
by Section12  (2017-06-23 09:15:29)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I agree with all you posted and I'd like to offer a couple of my own thoughts in no particular order.

1) Practice facilities matter. I suspect with a gentle prod from Mike both recruits mentioned them in their comments.
2) Both Ryan's look to be kick ass recruiters. One is smooth and polished with a long family pedigree while the other has an infectious attitude. It's hard not to feel good about the trajectory of recruiting.
3) I'm hopeful we are at the point where it will take a large upset for us not to make the sweet 16 and that would be huge. We may be entering a second golden age along the lines of Diggers prime years.
4) Depth. Not only extending the bench but probably more importantly practice. Both in terms of competition for playing time and to support the old adage "you are who you practice against" For years it's been impossible for the CS to simulate other teams due to the thin bench.
5)Mike Brey is really the perfect coach to install a collegiate Golden State offense. The era where back to the basket post play dominates has gone the way of the dodo bird and that suits Mike very well. All they have to do is perfect their defensive rotations for weak side help.
6) Mike may abandon his propensity for passivity on defense because of his fear of foul trouble. Provided they maintain their offensive spacing I can imagine going 9-10 deep.


Agreed, it certainly is a different feel.
by Stonebreaker9  (2017-06-23 08:25:37)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And certainly the polar opposite of the football team.


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