Just want to make sure.
MU also benefited from 2 missed front ends and a TO in 3 possessions.
My only point was that they needed a bogus call. Marquette did not.
I think it's incorrect to say that Marquette only won because the opponent "collapsed." Marquette made a bunch of tough, contested 3 pointers and Blue beat his man for the winning basket. They also forced that turnover by forcing Davidson to throw it over the top.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with the missed FTs either. Davidson made something like 7 of their final 8 FTs.
...I fail to see the difference.
You're also making quite a few assumptions about the last minute of the OSU/ISU game assuming the block had been called. There was still quite a bit of time left to play.
And you're right, I misremembered the MU Davidson sequence on the FTs. I will disagree that Marquette forced the Davidson TO. They already had the ball inbounded. All he had to do was wait to be fouled. Instead, he tried to win the game with a pass downcourt.
Then I can't help you.
And neither are within the control of the "lucky" team.
And why are you assuming that OSU would have lost a game if not for a call that happened with 1:41 left on the clock? With 1:41 left, MU was down 7 vs Davidson.
But the probability of them losing would have been pretty high.
Still baffled that you can't draw the distinction between opponent's mistakes, which happen every single game at all moments of the game, and a horrible missed call by an official. By your tortured logic, Davidson really didn't even deserve to be winning anyway because Marquette made a bunch of mistakes, so they would've been "lucky" to win if they had held on.
Every team makes mistakes and a major part of winning is making fewer mistakes. If your opponent makes more than you, then you weren't lucky. You were better.
It's also part of the game.
It's not only about Davidson making mistakes. You act as though teams routinely come back from 7 down in 45 seconds. It's pretty rare, and usually requires some self-destruction from the opponent, certainly beyond your average "mistakes".
Hell, people here were calling MU frauds after the game. And no one was challenging it.
I liken MU's win against Davidson to our win against Louisville. Did we ultimately deserve the win? Sure. But we were damned lucky to get it.
I'm not even sure what we're arguing here. MU and OSU are both lucky to still be in the tournament. If you want to distinguish between forms of luck, that's fine, I guess.
but this just looks to be sour grapes. From reading your posts, you would think MU somehow lucked into its Big East regular season championship, three consecutive sweet sixteen appearances and should be playing the likes of Saint Bernard's School of the Blind. Let it go man.
The only thing I've consistently stated is that they were very lucky to beat Davidson. I don't think that's a very controversial statement. OSU was also lucky to beat ISU.
I like Marquette, when they aren't playing ND. I'm from Wisconsin and a good number of my friends went there. So did my BIL. While some of them can be obnoxious, I'd still love for them to get to enjoy MU winning it all.
Was he somewhat lucky to have the opportunity to enhance his NCAA record? Likely, perhaps. But once he got that opportunity, he really took advantage. It seems silly to try and reframe his tourney experience as entirely predicated on luck. It took some fortunate events, but he capitalized on those circumstances.
His other accomplishments with Marquette partly validate his other post season successes.
I think it's skill. I'm not sure why you are stubbornly insisting on "self-destruction." Their only real mistake was a lone turnover.
If anything, it was probably bad luck that Marquette was in that predicament.
And while bad calls happen from time to time, it's still luck when you are the beneficiary of more good calls than bad calls. It's not luck when you make fewer mistakes than the opponent- it means you were better.
When an average 3 point shooting team (like ND and MU this year) makes (1) 3 in the 1st 38 minutes of the game, and then starts raining down contested 3s in the last 2 minutes, I think there is luck involved. But that's basketball.
Their average for the year is 30.5% and they were playing a team against which opponents averaged over 32%.
So it's "good luck" when they make them at the end of the game, but not bad luck when they miss at an unusually high rate at the beginning and middle of the game. Perfectly (non)sensical.
Maybe MU had a bad shooting night, and that's unlucky. I'll agree with that.
But, in my eyes, making 3 consecutive contested 3s has an element of luck.
Davidson turning the ball over when all they had to do was get fouled and make a couple free throws had a larger element of luck.
Doesn't mean Marquette didn't deserve to win. (Neither does one bad call mean that OSU didn't deserve to win). It just means that they were fortunate. Which is all I, or anyone, has ever said.