Oh goodie, another dubious American DQ.
by SavageDragon (2016-08-20 21:08:49)
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This is getting ridiculous.


Some background on Kenyan immigrant Paul Chelimo - US Army
by IndyDave  (2016-08-20 22:06:41)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Story on Chelimo entering the US Army World Class Athlete Program.


Both Chelimo and Mo Farah now live in Portland.-nice 1-2 *
by Domerduck  (2016-08-21 02:05:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Which brings us to the Nike Oregon Project discussion. (link)
by G.K.Chesterton  (2016-08-21 23:57:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I must admit, I'm not an AlSal fan at all. And I wouldn't...
by Rocksteady74  (2016-08-24 12:38:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

... be surprised to find that select NOP athletes are on the bad side of the line w/r/t doping.


My position is they are found doping, should be banned from
by Domerduck  (2016-08-24 16:35:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

the Olympics. We went years with pseudo amateur status that the iron curtain ignored and now they are ignoring doping. The truth is Nike has lots to lose if they are found doping. I have met Alberto Salazar several times in Oregon as my daughter was a runner and her coach, Cathy Twomey, knew him well. and we watched our kids run at a Jesuit high meet together. That was the first time I saw Galen Rupp run as a Freshman in high school and he was phenomenal outracing any high school kid. At 13/14 I can't imagine he was doping then.

I am sure they are on top of science and nutrition in many ways but doping would be a significant problem for Nike and Salazar. Clearly he had winners as his male athletes medaled in each distance race from the 1500 to the Marathon with 3 golds and 1 bronze. He also had many results that didn't medal which I can numerate if interested. The 3 athletes who medaled in RIo all either medaled in London or just missed out as Centrowitz was 4th by 4/100 of a second behind the bronze medalist. But he also had 3 other racers who didn't medal at Rio and 4 others who didn't qualify for the Olympics.

Despite the one allegation these folks have stayed clean for over 2 Olympic periods and have way too much to risk. As noted suspicion is not guilt and for now I am giving Alberto and his team the benefit of the doubt. I truly love the results. Hope he can replicate wth the women as Hasay and Cain are tremendous runners who also excelled in high school. Both are still very young. Rowbery is coached by Salazar and at 31 was close to medal, 4th only 12 seconds behind Jenny Simpson.who is 30 and the first US women to medal for the 1500. Cain is 20 and Hasay is 24.


Having some runners not medal does nothing to disprove ...
by Rocksteady74  (2016-08-24 19:43:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

... the allegations. Not every runner chooses to dope even if it is made available, and not every runner who dopes will thereby become a champion.

There is a lot of noise around AlSal and NOP, including from former members (who may just be acting out a grudge), the high percentage taking drugs for exercise induced asthma (as did AlSal during his career), and the fact that to be diagnosed the Oregon-based runners go to Houston to a doctor who is refusing to give testimony to the doping investigators.


The grudges drove this story and Salazar disproved them in
by Domerduck  (2016-08-25 11:36:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

his open letter which certainly was a dissertation with lots of facts and references if you take the time to read both. Alberto started with older athletes but Galen was his first one he started at a young age. When Mo came on board in 2011 it was so those two could work as training partners which certainly has been a fruitful collaboration resulting in 6 medals in the last 2 Olympics.

Clearly Alberto and his athletes from the Oregon Project have never failed a drug test and denounce doping. Considering how the Kenyans and Ethiopians were dominating distance racing, this program and these athletes have been the lone bright side for other competition. Initially it was US runners but now they have added Mo in 2011 to win in London (which he did for his host country) and a Japanese and Canadian runner. So now in addition to USATF which they have to stay "legal" with they also have 3 other country's to stay clean.

As for doctors in Houston if you have the money you go to the best. How many 80 year olds fly to the Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, or Houston for treatment if they can afford it. These are businesses and malpractice suits are rampant. No doctors would testify on anything voluntarily and would wait until they are subpoenaed or sued. Neither of these things have happened yet.

Maybe I am just blind to my fellow Ducks as I am often with my fellow Domers, but for now I trust them and am truly glad they are providing an alternative to the Kenya/Ethiopia monopoly


As for the drug tests, micro-dosing isn't going to blow ...
by Rocksteady74  (2016-08-25 13:38:48)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

... a test if it is done correctly. And if the Houston connection is on the up and up (ignoring for the moment whether the doc is indeed "the best"), why won't he talk to the doping authorities? Amazing how many of Alberto's runners have the same medical affliction for which he claimed to need medicine in his career. I've read Al's letter; it was a decently constructed argument but just that. It didn't disprove anything (just as the doubters have not proved their case against him).

I'll admit that having met a number of big runners back in the running boom days -- Boston Billy, Shorter, Rod Dixon, and Alberto -- Alberto was by far my least favorite. Billy was a sincere, sweet, sometimes befuddled guy. Shorter was reserved but straight up. Dixon was cocky but gregarious. Alberto was awkward, and a bit of a jerk. Of course, that lone doesn't make him guilty of being anything but a jerk.

However, it did prompt me to smile a bit when he entirely psyched himself out about the heat at the LA Olympics in '84. He vastly under achieved while two fair-skinned Northern Europeans, an Brit and an Irishman, captured the medals after Lopez.


Thanks for the thoughts and your vantage point. As a fellow
by Domerduck  (2016-08-25 17:18:37)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

parent whpse kids ran in Oregon I obviously had a different one. Back in the 70/80's in Eugene the world was different than when I readquainted myself with him in the early 2000's. I remember he had a role at the Eugene Electric Station where he was manager and helped promote the restaurant, Back then there certainly wasn't the money and folks like Matt C senior, Mary Decker Slaney, and Salazar were doing anything to make ends meet and still train. The Trials were in Eugene 72, 76, & 80 but didn't come back until 2008 as it took some commitment to make Oregon a track haven again after the days of Pre up through the LA Olympics in 84. With Nike as well as Adidas committing to Portland and Phil Knight committing to the Ducks and Eugene as Tracktown USA things have stabilized. it will be interesting if they get the trials for 2020 again but I know there is a move to get them somewhere else this time around.

You may be right there is something going on as we eventually found out about Armstrong which pretty much had me give up watching the Tour de France after being addicted every year until 2007. Hell I even rode a few Cycle Oregons where we had our own Peletons. I truly hope there is not a repeat here for all these runners sakes and so I don't have to give up watching distance running as well. I know at my age I am not doing any more marathons or even 5Ks with these knees but I do like seeing the young kids run. I especially love watching meets at Hayward Field in Eugene.

Thanks again for the posts with your thoughts as no many NDNation posters follow running like you and a few others do.


I enjoyed the exchange. Just for humor purposes I've ....
by Rocksteady74  (2016-08-25 18:03:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

... linked an article (over a year old) about the allegations. The humor is that the photo of Alberto is one in which he is wearing a Livestrong shirt. Hard to think of a worse choice of photos from his perspective.


I have an old Livestrong yellow Oregon Duck hat I now only
by Domerduck  (2016-08-25 21:25:42)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

wear around the house working on the lawn. I appreciate what you shared. Still It is always worrisome reading that stuff. As I said I will give him the benefit of the doubt. On the positive side I read why Mo Farah switched to Salazar in 2011 which has worked out for him. Given his options you would think he would switch if he was worried. He has made it clear he wouldn't dope or work with a coach that dopes.

Again we will see over time.


What event are you talking about? *
by Jojo98  (2016-08-20 21:53:21)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


American silver was DQ'ed (later reinstated) in the 5000.
by SavageDragon  (2016-08-20 22:00:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Had the DQ stood, a different American (the ageless Bernard Legat) would've picked up the bronze, but after the reinstatement, he drops back to 4th.


Legat actually dropped back to 5th. *
by G.K.Chesterton  (2016-08-21 02:12:43)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Men's 5000 and Paul Chelimo
by IndyDave  (2016-08-20 21:59:21)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

US Army Spc who finished second


DQ was not for what NBC showed
by IndyDave  (2016-08-20 21:29:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

IAAF referenced rule 163.3b, which would be stepping on or over the curb on a curve. I wonder if NBC can find the violation. The two other DQs were for the same rule.


Interesting.
by SavageDragon  (2016-08-20 21:33:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I find it believable that he stepped out, but given the amount of jostling in the race, I'd be surprised if it wasn't directly as a result of getting pushed. Overall that was a fairly poorly run race in terms of the guys on the rail getting the shit beat out of them.


DQs
by IndyDave  (2016-08-20 21:48:15)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It sure seems like there have an inordinate number of DQs this week. Maybe its the same as always, but we are just noticing them because of the number of them involving US athletes?

But it sure seems like they are working overtime to find violations.


NBC reporting Chelimo reinstated
by IndyDave  (2016-08-20 21:53:46)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Saw the replay of the alleged violation. Only showed once and couldn't tell if he was pushed on to the line, but I am guessing he was which probably led to rescinding the violation. The official would have been watching the feet, not the torso.


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