Notre Dame would go toe to toe with teams like Alabama
by ACross (2014-12-05 12:29:49)
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  In reply to: I meant to say "again"  posted by BigNDfan



if we had a premier coach and a championship program. None of oversigning/overstaffing/overspending by Alabama should daunt ND. Assuming ND was not helmed by Faust/Davie/Willingham/Weis/Kelly/Fitzgerald/Martin.


Agree, we competed with everyone under Weis at first
by mmetzger  (2014-12-05 15:48:10)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Win a few games, get people excited, and ND can recruit with anyone. Unfortunately we haven't had a coach who could develop them or coach them to big wins since Holtz.


I agree, if ND gets Meyer or Saban...
by BigNDfan  (2014-12-05 13:22:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The problem is that those coaches don't want to coach under NDs limitations.


But a few posts below you quote
by Ccndbound  (2014-12-05 14:47:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Meyer that ND is his dream job and you think he wants to come here....


I think he does, but it's also about timing...
by BigNDfan  (2014-12-05 15:04:21)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Meyer may be content towards the end of his career because he's already won big. He rightfully chose Florida back in the day because they were set up to win.

That said, I don't think he does anything before his son is out of high school. Will that line up with an ND coaching change? Doubtful.


Timing shouldn't mater if it was truly a dream job
by Ccndbound  (2014-12-05 17:02:39)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Clearly he said that for leverage in negotiations with other schools. If someone offered you your dream job, you would take it without regards to timing. Otherwise the words "dream job" ring hollow.


Eh, maybe
by YinzKeenanVisor  (2014-12-05 13:06:10)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Alabama and SC (and FSU and UGA and LSU and Texas) are just closer to a lot of the country's best talent. ND's nearby talent pool has depleted over the past 2-3 decades, and will only continue to do so. Some kids (and their families) just don't want to go to school 1,000 (or more) miles away.

We should, undeniably, have classes that are as good or better than Ohio St, Michigan, Nebraska, PSU, Oregon, Tennessee, etc.


I don't put a lot of weight on geography
by ACross  (2014-12-05 13:33:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Many of ND's best players have been from CA, the West coast, TX, and the South, as well as the northeast and the mid-atlantic.

Phil Carter, Steve Beuerlein, Mike Stonebreaker, Allen Pinkett, Tim Brown, Tom Carter, Tony Rice, Jimmy Clausen, Jeff Burris, Kory Minor, Jimmy Friday, Manti T'eo, Stephon Tuitt, Cedric Hilliard, the list goes on and on. We've never leaned on regional identity or even a regional pipeline.


Well, a lot of the kids we're recruiting do
by YinzKeenanVisor  (2014-12-05 14:55:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

A significant percentage of recruits from Florida, Texas, and California eliminate ND because of its distance, and, instead, look to the schools close by.

You're right - many of ND's best players from the past 30 years have come from far off places. And, really, that proves my point: unlike SC, Bama, and Miami, ND has to convince the country's best players - and their families - to spend 4 years at a place that's a 12-hour drive, or a 4-hour plane ride, away.

And while we cherry-picked some great players from Texas, S. Carolina, California, etc. in Holtz's years, we also had a huge chunk of talent, and really, each class's foundation, coming from relatively nearby, northern cities and states: from high schools in Chicago (Oliver Gibson, Pete Bercich, Bryant Young, Zorich), Michigan (Jerome Bettis, Randy Kinder), Ohio (Marc Edwards), Pennsylvania (Ray Zellars, Rocket, Ricky Watters, Powlus), Wisconsin (Flanigan), New Jersey (Irv Smith), and Indiana (Mirer, Derrick Mayes).

There just aren't as many good players in those states anymore. Populations have shifted. Participation is down. Some schools and programs have shuttered. Now, there are fewer and fewer Jaylon Smiths within a 6 hour drive of South Bend.


it wasn't just the Holtz years. It started with Ara.
by ACross  (2014-12-05 16:57:07)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I reject the Tex Francisco theory of football demographics. Since the 1970s we've criss crossed the country for players. From Phoenix to Portland to Seattle to Denver to Florida, VA and the Carolinas, Texas, Louisiana, both Carolinas, Georgia, and the Tidewater.


it's not 1988 anymore, Moff *
by jt  (2014-12-05 17:18:21)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


You can reject it all you want
by YinzKeenanVisor  (2014-12-05 17:14:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But it's real.

The WPIAL used to be one of the 4-5 most fertile recruiting spots in the country. Now, it produces 1-2 Top 250 players a year (if that).

We always have and always will get great players from across the country. But now, more and more of the top kids in the country are in the South and West.


That's just a load of bunk.
by ACross  (2014-12-05 17:26:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

ND has always pulled its regular students and its athletes from across the country. It will continue to do so. and if we get a great coach, recruiting will take care of itself.


I never disputed those points
by YinzKeenanVisor  (2014-12-05 18:10:36)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I disputed that ND could out recruit the SC and Bama-like football factories (who've put together 4-5 consecutive #1 classes in the last decade) when they're at the height of their powers b/c they are now closer to the majority of the country's talent.

We can and should (with the right coach) be able to pull enough talent to win championships (top 10 classes). That will never change


Actually, there are probably more good players in Indiana.
by tusk  (2014-12-05 16:48:44)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

In particular, there are more good players in the Indianapolis area. The Colts' presence has really caused a resurgence in HS football in Indy.

As for the other states, I agree. And even though Indiana is producing more good players, there aren't enough to be the foundation of a top 10 program.


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