This feels a lot like 2008
by Jvan (2014-11-29 21:53:23)
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Weis tanked in November, but the Admin was caught by surprise and was in no way prepared to change coaches. Therefore, we entered 2009 with a minority of spracks telling us that our talent would gel and Charlie would turn it around.

I'm sure someone will post that Kelly is better than Weis and we really, really, really will turn it around in 2015. The problem with that strategy of hope is that Kelly has lost his players, so "better than Weis" only means "different than Weis".

I think we're going to see a rerun of 2009 next year. My expectations will be low, both for the team and for the Admin's ability to prepare for the inevitable.


If Kelly wanted to keep it he should have put a ring on it. *
by Porpoiseboy  (2014-11-29 23:38:00)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Agreed. *
by AFA91  (2014-11-29 23:20:52)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


The last sentence about the lack of ability of the BOT and
by NDRich  (2014-11-29 23:06:26)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

administration leaves almost no hope for this program. I've said this many times. Notre Dame will have to luck into a great coach because the administration has no clue how to identify and close on a potential one.

This is the worst I've ever felt about this program because it is so far removed from greatness that used to identify Notre Dame Football.


Kelly has lost his players?
by comarionnd  (2014-11-29 22:43:52)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I keep seeing that thrown around tonight, but I can't find a primary source (I've searched). Can you cite or reference something?


Isn't this the second time in his tenure that he lost the
by irishbarrister  (2014-11-29 22:53:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

team? When he pulled the 'blame on Weis' Guys' routine there was a meltdown, correct. I do seem to remember that Kelly apologized in a meeting and managed to repair his relationship witht he team. Or am i misremembering things?


I'm honestly just curious
by comarionnd  (2014-11-29 23:02:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

because it's seem to have become fact today. Where are people getting this (besides our recent results)?

It just seems like we're piling on to say he's lost his team.

Edit: This is not a comment on his coaching ability.


For me it is isn't a locker room source this time around
by irishbarrister  (2014-11-29 23:08:24)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

it is more the lack of focus, passion, body language, attention to the coach speaking, etc. on the field. An apparent disengagement and lack of concern for lack of a better way of stating it. Others may have more hard evidence, I really haven't dug into the issue. The 1st occurence was well publicized.


I'm watching Groundhog Day tonight...
by Scoop80  (2014-11-29 22:40:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I'd rather be Bill Murray in Punxsatawney


You saw it today too, right? *
by irishhawk49  (2014-11-29 23:01:24)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


It's a shame Kelly tanked so badly
by serious  (2014-11-29 22:27:39)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

this year. If we had finished 9-3 or maybe 8-4, I could see a NFL team taking a chance on him. No one wants him now.


I would like to hope that Swarbrick is a lot more prepared
by treisele  (2014-11-29 22:26:03)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Now than he was as a new AD with a lame duck coach then. He's made a lot of decisions since then, some of which many of us haven't agreed with, but he's at least shown the appearance of a plan. As I said earlier today, I don't want another lame duck coach, and I would love (and would be pleasantly surprised, to a degree) if we have an AD who can make sure that doesn't happen.


It feels a lot worse
by ugoirish  (2014-11-29 22:12:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

because there seems to be less hope that something will be done about it, even after next year. If Weis hadn't lost to Navy (the loss that Swarbrick said cost him his job) and had figured out a way to get by mighty UConn or Pitt or maybe gotten lucky against Stanford he would have been 8-4 and I'll bet Swarbrick would have argued that his trajectory was headed upward from 3-9 to 7-6 to 8-4. Say Kelly goes 9-3 next year. Will Sawrbrick fire him for that?

But I get your point. If Kelly really has lost this team, the losses won't be by 4, 7, 2, 5, 3 and 7 points like they were in Weis' last year.


it's soul crushing that we have to go through the same thing
by jt  (2014-11-29 22:21:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

again.

It's like the Twilight Zone episode when the guy is in jail sentenced to death for a crime that he didn't commit and he keeps reliving the day of his execution over and over again and the Governor always calls for the stay of the execution 10 seconds after the switch is flipped.


Yes it is. *
by ugoirish  (2014-11-29 22:24:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


To Serve Irish *
by tbonesays  (2014-11-29 22:30:05)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


agree *
by jt  (2014-11-29 22:09:00)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


This feels worse than '08. At least Weis had the support...
by ndgoldandblue  (2014-11-29 22:08:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

of all his players. Hell, in Palo Alto in '09, the entire team walked out of the tunnel arm-in-arm with Weis. Clausen and Tate left early primarily because of Weis' dismissal. If Kelly has truly lost this team, which some have suggested, then several keys players may transfer, or at the very least, they probably won't help sell Notre Dame to recruits. By the way, is it true that Kelly has "lost the team", or is that just conjecture? Any inside info?


Crist and Ragone chose KU transfer for one reason. CW *
by irishrock  (2014-11-29 22:25:54)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Once a coach has lost the locker room he should be gone.
by RandalGraves  (2014-11-29 22:04:15)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Once a lack of belief permeates within the program and the players no longer trust the coaching staff, exit strategies must be explored at once.

If I were Jack answering these questions would be one of my priorities this week.

It appears that player morale is at an all time low under Kelly and perhaps Kelly's approach has reached its tipping point.


Agreed. Kelly has lost the team...
by BuckeyeJohn05  (2014-11-29 22:03:18)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Move on. You know what you have.

Life is too short to live in 8-4 or 9-3 purgatory.


We did win the Apple Cup in 2009. That is something that
by Raoul  (2014-11-29 22:02:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

will not be re-done in 2015.


We won't even be able to lay claim to the Big Ten title
by ShermanOaksND  (2014-11-29 22:04:19)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

now that UMass has been expelled from the MAC.


I must have blocked that out.
by Revue Party  (2014-11-29 22:00:15)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Because this feels pretty awful.


Charlie Strong will have UT defense prepped disrupt all
by irishhawk49  (2014-11-29 22:00:00)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

of our timing routes and other cutesie plays.
2015 could very well start with a USF11 type thud.


If they put too many players in the box,
by Revue Party  (2014-11-29 22:00:58)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

we'll never be able to run the ball. Rules are rules.


Which means three, of course. *
by NDBass  (2014-11-29 22:08:18)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


"Caught by surprise" . . . What possible excuse could JS
by VaDblDmr  (2014-11-29 21:59:48)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

have this go-around? He's not a first year AD, and Kelly put him on notice two years ago.


Your key point "Kelly has lost his players". He has. *
by eriendfan  (2014-11-29 21:59:45)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


You predicted 6-6 for 2009 and a lot of people scoffed
by NavyJoe  (2014-11-29 21:58:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Me included.

What's your guess for next year? I'm going to say 8-4, and only because the schedule is shit.

Losses to Clemson, Georgia Tech, USC, and either BC or PITT.


I don't see 8 wins.
by jakam31  (2014-11-29 22:02:35)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

TEXAS
@ Virginia
GEORGIA TECH
UMASS
Clemson
NAVY
SOUTHERN CAL
Temple (LFSF)
Pittsburgh
WAKE FOREST
BOSTON COLLEGE (Fenway Pk.)
Stanford

Honestly, I'm not sure I see more than 4 gimmes: UVA, UMASS, Temple, Wake Forest. 6-6 is a possibility.


UVa won't be a gimme with this clown car outfit *
by ShermanOaksND  (2014-11-29 22:05:21)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


The fact that you typed that...
by NDBass  (2014-11-29 22:07:26)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and I read it without thinking "this guy is full of shit" speaks volumes about where we are with Kelly.


At least Charlottesville is a nice town.
by jakam31  (2014-11-29 22:07:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The wine and cheese crowd at UVA will be in a pillow fight with the blue hairs from ND.


For getting raped in. Stay away from fraternity row *
by TAR  (2014-11-29 22:23:53)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


At the time, I said keeping Weis was Swarbrick's mulligan
by ShermanOaksND  (2014-11-29 21:58:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

By definition, you only get one of those. If Swarbrick announces that Kelly is returning in 2015, then Swarbrick's head needs to be on the chopping block ... and so on, up to the very top.

The same would be true, by the way, if Kelly is fired but we then blunder into another bad hire., e.g., a Pat Fitzgerald-type. To perform his own job properly, Swarbrick has to both get rid of Kelly and make sure his next hire is a significant improvement.


The conditions you put on any change make the
by PENGIEP  (2014-11-29 22:58:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

possibility of such change highly unlikely. First Kelly will get another year unless he leaves. That's a certainty. Second, if you predicate that, before any coaching change that ND sign a "better" coach than Kelly, it's simply NOT going to happen. ND will not be able to sign and cannot get a coach "better" than Kelly to come to ND.


Upon what do you base your opinion that ND cannot get a
by Grace91  (2014-11-29 23:43:41)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

coach "better" than Kelly to come to ND? Specifically that ND can't, as opposed to won't. Why are we not able to do so? For what reasons is it not possible?


Yes *
by R2D2isAMeanDrunk  (2014-11-29 21:57:34)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Yep.
by captaineclectic  (2014-11-29 21:55:35)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

November 2008 was brutal, especially after an orgasmic win over Michigan. History repeats.

My main hope is that on a preliminary call some agent says "Actually, my client is interested today, not next December."


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