"no reason we can't compete" = "it's no longer our goal"
by ndgotrobbedin97 (2017-07-16 09:56:45)
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Pretty sure its as simple as that. Those words were strung together for a reason, so they flowed out of his mouth as they did. If they happen to luck into a title, they'll certainly pat themselves on the back (repeatedly), but does anyone think that this is something akin to a quest for a title?

Hell, if you read his words, 8-4 or even 7-5 seem to be good enough this year, so why would I assume excellence is anywhere on the list of goals. Compare his quotes with what Gene Smith said earlier this summer about staying ahead of the pack. It's just sad that there is a group of people in charge who are striving only to maintain some fictional status for the school, rather than always striving to be the best.

When you aim for the moon, you might not make it, but you'll probably get further than you would if you only aim for the clouds.




Winners
by ND24Bama23  (2017-07-17 16:37:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Why does our staff focus on something other than winning?

“Winning is not a sometime thing…it’s an all the time thing. You don’t win once in a while…you don’t do the right thing once in a while…you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit.”
“Show me a good loser, and I’ll show you a loser.”
“Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.”
“The objective is to win: fairly, squarely, decently, win by the rules, but still win.”
“A team that thinks it’s going to lose is going to lose.”
“To the winner, there is 100-percent elation, 100-percent fun, 100-percent laughter; and yet the only thing left to the loser is resolution and determination.”
“Second place is meaningless. You can’t always be first, but you have to believe that you should have been – that you were never beaten – that time just ran out on you.” - Vince Lombardi

So whatever happened to "WINNING at ND?" When you use phrases like "in the conversation" "no reason we can't compete" you are making COMPETING the goal.

WIN the game. The next game. Every game. Our goal is to WIN each and every game.


Because he's not dating the Prom Queen.
by tdiddy07  (2017-07-17 17:52:46)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Unfortunately, he's also not dating Miss Congeniality.


It's pretty amazing
by HTownND  (2017-07-17 15:00:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

"He doesn’t want to give Kelly a chance at the playoffs. He wants to give him chances.

The reinvestment in Kelly and his staff this winter – new offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, special teams coordinator and strength coach – was not made under threat of a one-year ultimatum.

“We had a decision to make at the end of last year,” Swarbrick told Irish Illustrated. “We made a decision to go long.

“You can’t attract the people that we attracted if they’re worried that it’s a one-year experiment. We’re looking for progress. We want to be better this year, but (also) clearly see a trajectory where we’re going to get back to national championship contention. Everything I see now gives me great encouragement that we’re on that road."


We're entering year 8, and we're still "down the road" and playing the long game, to get to our goals.

By the time Kelly reaches the end of this proverbial new road (and most likely still hasn't delivered us a title), he'll become the longest tenured coach in ND history with the most wins. Everyone needs to think long and hard about this. Kelly could become our "greatest" or "winningest" coach of all time, all while never coming close to winning a title at ND.


Games Coached at ND
Holtz - 132
Rockne - 122
Parseghian - 116
Leahy - 107
Kelly - 90


If Kelly makes 3 straight bowl games, he'll pass Holtz during the 2020 season for most games coached in ND history. He'll pass Leahy next year, he'll tie Ara after 2018, and pass Ara and Rock during the 2019 season.

If he averages 8 wins a year (his current average), he'd pass Rockne and Holtz during the 2022 season. He'll pass Leahy during the 2020 season and Ara during the 2021 season. While that seems a long way out, he'd pass Leahy in 3 seasons after this one.


If he averages 10-3
He'll pass Leahy in 2019, Ara in 2020, Lou and Rockne in 2021


Those seem like they are long off. They are not.

*** this assume we win our appeal on some technicality about being an athletic department employee who isn't a tutor versus one who is.


He'd become our Bo Schembechler but with a much worse record *
by TCIrish03  (2017-07-17 17:54:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Well that's just mean.
by Revue Party  (2017-07-18 09:32:03)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I mean funny. I mean accurate.


Imagine the inevitable "statue" in his honor
by LateNiteNaugles  (2017-07-17 17:30:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Instead of carved, polished granite it will be a first-of-its-kind memorial, purple-faced, visor-topped hologram stalking up and down an ersatz sideline reconstructed within the Rex and Alice Martin Digital Media Center at Corbett Family Hall at Notre Dame Stadium at Crossroads.

And there will be colored smoke for effect. Lots and lots of colored smoke.


Inscription: "Zero. None. Absolutely none."
by YodaDame  (2017-07-18 01:34:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Get used to it.


What is the number of titles Kelly won, Alex. *
by Irish89  (2017-07-18 14:14:33)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


This leads me to believe .....
by BIG MAC  (2017-07-17 15:53:22)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

That Savvy Jack never had a plan B.


Your last paragraph makes me shudder
by IrishLep  (2017-07-17 15:21:05)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I never thought of things working out that way, but it is entirely possible. And by that time my interest in ND football would be long gone


"You know, every year we're competing for the National
by Dillon76  (2017-07-17 12:02:46)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Championship." This was the line that the character playing Coach Parseghian in the movie, "Rudy", told Rudy in the scene where Rudy goes in to speak to him. We are a LONG way from those days.


You're an All American and our captain, Dillon76
by stanford_07  (2017-07-18 15:59:23)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Act like it!


No reason we can't, but we almost certainly won't.
by 88_92WSND  (2017-07-16 15:59:09)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Can't implies an actual limitation. Won't implies choice. We CAN compete. We just make choices not to.


Wonder what happened to "in the conversation"?
by beattherush  (2017-07-16 15:07:34)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Apparently the bar has been moved downwards to fit the performance.

In private enterprise they fire people for that, Jack.

In the secular world they fire people for that, Father.

Our Board of Trustees should be experienced enough that they know this already. One wonders where they are.


We're in the conversation, as a laughing stock.
by Bones  (2017-07-17 10:53:24)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Fucking three ring circus, without the rings.


"What about Notre Dame" [hearty guffaws] *
by captaineclectic  (2017-07-17 15:42:40)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Kelly's tone (early vs late)in his ND tenure
by Hanratty5ND  (2017-07-16 11:31:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Has anyone noticed how Kelly never even mentions playing for or winning a national title as a goal at ND anymore?


At least the first few years at ND--he constantly talked about playing for and winning a national title. It came up a lot in his PC's and when talking about recruiting.

That all seemed to disappear after the debacle against Alabama and his dalliance with the Eagles.

It's his bosses job to make sure they have a coach with an eye on the goal(national title) and the ability to achieve it. But that's a huge part of the problem too. Kelly's bosses don't give a fuck about winning championships either.


Another reason to hate the eagles: they didnt hire him *
by ColoraDomer  (2017-07-17 13:38:03)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


If an avg record of 8-5 gets ND in the NC race- BK is "IN" *
by Jammer  (2017-07-16 23:59:00)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


No I've never noticed it, because that's not accurate.
by BigNDfan  (2017-07-16 19:09:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And I bet you could find a very recent quote from him.


Words are wind
by Jvan  (2017-07-16 22:16:15)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

His effort on the job doesn't approach what is needed to achieve a high level of success. Mediocrity reigns.


I don't disagree....
by BigNDfan  (2017-07-17 11:08:24)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

but to state that he never talks about Championships and the playoffs is wrong. It's commonly mentioned and the playoff schedule and championship game are even hanging in the lockerroom every year.


Big Hitter, as you might know, effort doesn't mean a
by ProV1x  (2017-07-17 09:42:28)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

whole lot without the talent, expertise, and luck (good breaks at opportune times) to go with it. Through the years many of us have spent as many hours on the rockpile as is humanly possible but all of that dedicated effort have only made us better at being mediocre. We still keep pushing the rock though as one day we might find (and UNDERSTAND) the secret.


that is just not true
by ocdomer78  (2017-07-16 18:37:34)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

When he spoke at our club event in May he did in fact talk about competing for NC's. He also stated they needed to be much better immediately. In no way did he leave the impression that he has a multi-year grace period to turn this around. He also took full blame for last year.

talk is cheap but he said all of the right things. I think those who believe he is not on the hot seat from the administration are wrong despite what Jack is publicly saying.


A 2-3 year hot seat, perhaps?
by ndgotrobbedin97  (2017-07-17 11:02:20)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I really can't see those coaches going to ND without some promise of multiple years. Of course, if that's the case, every coach in America is on the hot seat.


Hot seats....it's Jack+Kelly
by iNDyrob  (2017-07-17 10:30:51)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Swarbrick has tied himself at the hip to Kelly. If we see another shit show of a season, they'll both be gone. The BOD would have to make a move.


They'd have to be under .500 again
by ndgotrobbedin97  (2017-07-17 12:40:33)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Otherwise, I'd be shocked if they made a move given the hiring of quality/up-and-coming assistants. Those guys didn't make the move for 1 year, and Swarbrick himself has said so. Pretty much a cut and dry case for multiple years in my mind.


I tend to agree
by El Kabong  (2017-07-17 10:27:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

With the hot seat thing, at least.


Me too
by IrishLep  (2017-07-17 15:27:07)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I've heard some things from a couple of people that I trust (yes it's all rumor) that Kelly has 1 more year to get it done


What would be considered "getting it done?" *
by Mike Regan  (2017-07-17 16:44:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Playoffs
by IrishLep  (2017-07-17 21:41:45)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I will repeat, what I have been told is all rumor mill fluff. However, the individuals that told me this have been fairly reliable in the past. So, basically, 60% of the time it works every time


Do you think it's puff to increase Kelly's marketability?
by tdiddy07  (2017-07-17 11:10:58)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The only thing that would make sense to me is that Jack was open to change last year, but there was no demand for Kelly and the buyout was too big. I could conceivably see Jack trying to puff up the value of Kelly so Kelly has an 8-5 season and some program will take him off our hands.

I had that hope shortly after the SC game. But based on the complete jackassery of his public comments, the smug contempt for alumni dissension, and the misplaced institutional priorities and excuses for failure throughout the Kelly-era, that hope expired.


The answer is no *
by ACross  (2017-07-17 11:58:10)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


"34. Notre Dame Fighting Irish"
by cj  (2017-07-17 11:29:05)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

"Preseason Predicted Regular Season Record: 7-5
For a while it’ll look like the Irish will be in for something special, and they’ll be just good enough at times to tease. But they’ll alternate big wins with losses, dropping a date to NC State after beating USC, and losing to Miami and Stanford in November. You are what your record is, but they’ll be better than 7-5.
– ND Preview | ND Won’t Win CFP, But You Knew That"


What makes you think he's on the hot seat? *
by IrishGeek  (2017-07-17 01:25:31)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


i thought my post was pretty clear but let's try again
by ocdomer78  (2017-07-17 12:46:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

he indicated a strong sense of urgency; i.e. we need to get this fixed in 2017, not three years from now. We can all debate what admin/jack would find to be significant improvement. But it would be wrong to think that Kelly is feeling comfortable.

He also knows there were large numbers that wanted him fired.I am reasonably sure so does Jack. These guys hear from large numbers of people. To think they are immune to what folks such as those who post here are saying defies logic.


So you're reading into his "get it fixed now" comment...
by IrishGeek  (2017-07-17 14:01:41)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and concluding from that statement that he's been told by Swarbrick his job is in jeopardy based upon this year's results. Is that a fair statement?

And what makes you think Swarbrick or Kelly are in any way affected by the people who want them both to go? You say it defies logic, but it is what has actually happened. Swarbrick last year openly mocked the Observer ads. In fact, he's been sandbagging already with his "long term" comments and how they've committed to the new assistants. You're drawing a conclusion from some coachspeak Kelly threw out to the alumni club that his job is in trouble.

I was hoping you actually had something more tangible that you'd heard from the inside because just going off Kelly's comments ain't much.


I think he thought he did his job by reaching the title game
by SEE  (2017-07-16 17:44:31)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I still can't believe he talked to the Iggles with the NC game on the line. Donald Jr move.


And then getting pile-drived (urban dictionary style)? *
by Jurassic  (2017-07-16 18:07:01)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


He'd never admit it
by Groundhog  (2017-07-16 14:54:42)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But Kelly knows he's in over his head when it comes to his coaching abilities.


More importantly,
by Jvan  (2017-07-16 11:01:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

What does this say to our prospects of ever attracting a high caliber coach?


I seriously don't think they want one
by 2ndstreeter  (2017-07-16 13:37:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I think they would see a Meyer or Saban caliber head coach as a threat to the stranglehold on power that they now have. Kelly or slightly better is exactly what they want, someone with a winning record that can be controlled and manipulated at will. A coach that pulls in NC's doesn't fit that bill.


yup, a classic fear of someone who will steal their glory
by irishguard78  (2017-07-17 10:54:36)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Happens all the time in the business world. Smart people hire and promote smart (and even smarter) people all the time. They are the one's who are generally more successful.

Shitty managers refuse promote smart(er) folks for fear that they'll somehow diminish them. Generally, shitty managers are doomed to failure.


Kelly is not exactly being controlled
by Jvan  (2017-07-16 14:33:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He doesn't work hard but faces no consequences. He also gave ND the bird with regard to negotiating his buyout. Kelly is the one who is controlling the situation, not ND.


Good grief.
by 105Marquette  (2017-07-16 20:55:01)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Good thing ND avoided hiring a top shelf coach who would've walked all over the admin and turn the employer-employee relationship on its head.

Bullet dodged, I guess.


We really are re-defining "leadership". *
by Brahms  (2017-07-16 21:15:07)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


the one thing they tried to control
by jt  (2017-07-16 20:25:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

is the assistant coaches.

Not one part of me believes that shanty mick wanted BVG gone last year.


Which explains why we have an OC with 1 year experience...
by Brahms  (2017-07-16 21:20:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...but not why we keep throwing good money after bad.

Who the hell would want to coach at this shit show.

Nicely done, Jack. Own it, you smug POS.


pretty much. Anyone that knows what they're doing
by jt  (2017-07-16 21:21:51)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

on the offensive side of the ball stays away from Kelly.


I was thinking of control in terms of being told to revamp
by 2ndstreeter  (2017-07-16 20:02:55)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

his staff, however I guess your info puts a different light on things. the Savvy one has a tiger by the tail when it comes to contracts and money.


The Peter Principal from his date of hire. *
by mkovac  (2017-07-16 19:21:35)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I really don't understand this.
by Jurassic  (2017-07-16 18:01:21)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Why in the hell would someone just want to be mediocre? At Notre Dame? And then be able to get away with it?


His window of opportunity for a "better" job has passed
by Jvan  (2017-07-16 22:12:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He knows he'll never get another big money deal, so he's going to milk the one he has.


The last one to figure it out, our Stanford Law VP! *
by CJC  (2017-07-17 00:36:09)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


So...they did try to buy him out after his latest...
by Brahms  (2017-07-16 16:28:50)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...turd sandwich?


The topic was raised
by Jvan  (2017-07-16 17:04:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The conversation was short.


Clearly he thought he had something more to contribute....
by Brahms  (2017-07-16 17:10:48)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...to his rich legacy of self-centered turdliness.


Kelly isn't the blameworthy party. *
by VaDblDmr  (2017-07-16 18:36:53)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


He certainly is one of the blameworthy parties *
by IrishLep  (2017-07-17 14:48:03)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


He is a blameworthy party
by ACross  (2017-07-17 12:38:54)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

So too his meathead agent


I completely agree. *
by Brahms  (2017-07-16 18:54:08)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


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