I've said it before and I'll say it again
by El Kabong (2014-11-22 22:53:32)
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Success and failure is not a binary proposition.

Not winning a National Championship does not make a season a failure. The fact that there isn't a National Championship at the end of every season doesn't make a season a failure, and certainly doesn't mean ND shouldn't set its goal every season towards winning one.

Being happy with three to four losses every year is the path to true irrelevance. Notre Dame has the resources (financial, logistical, and otherwise) to win National Championships in football. It's equally important to have the will, and the quickest way to lose that will is for the fans to shrug their shoulders and decide, "well, it just can't be done".

Most seasons fall short of goals. If your goal is three losses, you're in trouble.


I wish this board would take this on as its raison d'etre.
by Cash  (2014-11-22 22:53:21)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Thread locked

I agree with the Bonger and think this post of his is a fine statement of what ND football ought to be about.

Too much of the time I see people getting lost in hyperbole, emoting based on one loss or another, and I think credibility is diminished. But this board is at its best when it's challenging the University to steward this football program well and aggressively chase success while providing what should be the standard for the true student-athlete model.

This is a lot more important than the subjective assessment of any particular coach.

Well done, bonger.

Cash


Suppose we had a more modest goal of just ten wins
by Carroll02  (2014-11-22 22:53:21)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Thread locked

We've met that goal just three times in the last 20 years. And even in those three years, we had 7 losses by an average of 23 points (only one of them was less than 20 points).

Even if there were an NCAA rule that said under no circumstances shall Notre Dame ever win a championship, someone needs to explain why we can't even manage to be good. 9-4 is ok for an off year. It is not good. And at the moment, it is probably our ceiling for this year.

We are top-14 in virtually every input to the program - facilities, recruiting, fans, and even coaching if you ask someone who has been sleeping for the last four days. So why have we cracked the top 14 only twice in the last 19 years? In that time, 65 different teams have made it in the top 14 - more than half of FCS schools - and we could only make it twice.

AP rankings since 1994:

NR, 11, 19, NR, 22, NR, 15, NR, 17, NR, NR, 9, 17, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR, 4, 20, NR.

A list of schools ranked by most top-14 finishes since 1996:
14: Ohio State
12: Florida
11: Alabama, LSU
10: Georgia, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas
9: Florida State, Michigan
8: Kansas State, USC
7: Auburn, Miami, Tennessee, Virginia Tech
6: Boise State, Nebraska, TCU, Wisconsin
5: Michigan State, Penn State
4: South Carolina, Iowa, Stanford, Washington State
3: Arizona State, Baylor, BYU, Louisville, Ole Miss, UCLA, West Virginia
2: Arkansas, California, Clemson, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Mississippi State, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Utah, and Notre Dame.




I count three times in the top-14 since '94.
by 3rdSt  (2014-11-22 22:53:21)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Thread locked

But your point still stands. Look at some of the schools that have six or more occurrences there- many are hardly what one would consider top tier football programs....


I kind of moved the goal line on that one
by Carroll02  (2014-11-22 22:53:21)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Thread locked

We've only been on the top 14 twice in the last 19 years (since 1996) but I listed the rankings going back 21 years (since 1994).


If that's not the goal ...
by CJC  (2014-11-22 22:53:21)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Thread locked

in word -- and most importantly in deed, in terms of commitment -- we should Join The Ivy League.

In my lifetime, there have been many great seasons that didn't culminate in a national championship.

1964, 1970, 1989, 1993 and 2012, for starters.

Notre Dame fans can be unreasonable, but in the final analysis, we're capable of recognizing greatness that falls short of a national championship.

If nothing else, Bo Schembechler proved that you'll never win what you disavow.


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