We don't produce men's sports champions any longer
by VaDblDmr (2017-04-12 11:48:34)
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I took a look at the men’s champions in Football, Basketball, Baseball, Lacrosse, Hockey, and Soccer from 2000 to the present to see if my impression – that we no longer win anything in men’s sports – was correct, and here is what I found. We have won 1 such championship since 2000: Men’s Soccer, 2013.

Contrast that with:

North Carolina – 6 (Basketball - 3, Soccer – 2, Lacrosse – 1)

Virginia – 6 (Lacrosse – 3, Soccer – 2, Baseball – 1)

Duke – 6 (Basketball – 3, Lacrosse – 3)

Syracuse – 6 (Lacrosse – 5, Basketball – 1)

Florida – 4 (Football – 2, Basketball – 2)

LSU – 4 (Football – 2, Baseball – 2)

UConn – 4 (Basketball – 3, Soccer – 1)

Alabama – 4 (Football – 4)

Denver – 4 (Hockey – 3, Lacrosse – 1)

BC – 4 (Hockey – 4)

(Happily, Michigan stands at 0, although their football future right now looks far better than ours. And, yes, I know I left off fencing . . . along with golf, cross country, etc.)



The non-football sports never won titles
by NDCuse  (2017-04-13 11:48:05)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Except for Helms Foundation awards years later for B'ball. 2006-present has arguably been the best stretch ever for non-football sports.

Lax Final 4 appearances all-time: 2001, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015. That includes two close title game losses, one in overtime.

Hockey Frozen Four appearances all-time: 2008, 2011, 2017. NCAA tournament appearances all-time: 2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017,

Soccer Quarterfinal Appearances: 2006, 2007, 2013

Basketball Elite Eights: 1953, 1954, 1958, 1978, 1979, 2015, 2016
Final Fours: 1974


Many of you have pointed out our "near wins" since '00. Here
by VaDblDmr  (2017-04-12 19:50:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

they are:

0 for 5 in lacrosse final fours (0-2 in championship game).

0 for 3 in hockey frozen fours (0-1 in championship game).

0 for 1 in football national championship.

Closing the deal across several sports doesn't seem to be a strong suit. Maybe it's not indicative of anything, but it struck me as a trend.


The problem...
by John@Indy  (2017-04-13 09:42:48)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...is that other than football, ND has no pre-2000 history of winning it all in any of the sports you list. Lacrosse, soccer, and hockey are as good as they've ever been. (None of those programs had reached a final four before 2001, but they have combined for nine appearances this century). Men's basketball is in its best condition since the early 1980s. ND men continue to win NCAA titles in fencing, which is now a coed sport. The problem is football. If ND were winning or at least regularly contending for football titles, you wouldn't be making specious claims about the condition of the men's athletic teams. Keep the focus where it belongs.


top academic schools like ND should expect to.....
by brnd  (2017-04-12 14:42:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

.....perform very well in women's sports, as a scholarship to a place like ND is more the prize for the female student-athlete than the dream of an 8-digit professional contract some day.

Having said that, ND men have lost in title games in football, hockey and lacrosse recently.


ND could also increase the number of sports offered
by fontoknow  (2017-04-12 14:44:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Stanford sponsors 37 varsity teams. They win at least one team national championship a year. But some of it is that they get so many more at bats to accomplish the goal.

ND is fielding 23 varsity teams.


At what cost, real and implicit?
by squid  (2017-04-13 12:31:44)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I'd rather see independent research funding for undergraduates and support to student clubs increase.


We all want to win titles in every sport.
by MobileIrish  (2017-04-12 14:07:56)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Of course it hurts to see teams we care about lose. I was disappointed in how the hockey season ended. That doesn't diminish the accomplishment of reaching the Frozen Four. Lacrosse has come agonizingly close to a national title in recent years.

To borrow from Taxman, postseason success depends on getting enough at bats. If a team is in the NCAA tournament on a regular basis, they have a chance for a breakthrough performance. Aside from football and baseball, most ND sports are competitive. I feel lacrosse, soccer, or hockey will have opportunities to win titles in the future.


Which of those schools would you change places with now?
by pmcdnd96  (2017-04-12 13:41:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I would change places with Alabama and that's about it. I'd obviously like to have won the championships the other schools have won, but right now, we are good in all of those sports. Our football coach is a joke, but we have the talent in place that a good coach/season could result in a national championship in any of those sports. What are the odds of North Carolina winning a hockey national championship next year? Is Denver a threat to take home a football national championship?

To be clear - our performance over the past 20 years is nothing to brag about. But the real problem with this situation is the football team. Not because we don't measure up to other schools, but because we don't measure up to us.


It's also a selective list of schools chosen for bias
by SixShutouts66  (2017-04-12 14:32:58)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It seems the list was derived by looking at who's won national championships in sports over a limited time period, list them, and point out "gee where are we". As others have pointed out, we're doing quite well in most of these sports even if we've not won the NC. For many of these sports, it's also harder for a private school to compete when full scholarships are limited. Expressing frustration with the FB results like the original post did doesn't accomplish anything.


#FakeNews *
by fontoknow  (2017-04-12 12:22:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


How so? Did I make an error? *
by VaDblDmr  (2017-04-12 12:43:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


With the exception of football, we never did
by fontoknow  (2017-04-12 12:49:41)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

at least using your subset of sports.

Your post clearly implied that we stopped winning championships in those sports ... so yes, #fakenews.


The idea is that even if we have given up on football,
by VaDblDmr  (2017-04-12 14:26:11)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

perhaps we have nevertheless "traded" for excellence in other sports. And while we have improved in some, that isn't so across the board (see baseball); and, in any event, has not resulted in championships.
I apologize that the point wasn't as clear as it could have been.


In fact, setting aside football the trend line seems to be
by FL_Irish  (2017-04-12 14:12:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...up. We are nationally competitive in hockey, lacrosse and soccer and are close in basketball. None of which was true 15-20 years ago.


Men's soccer and lacrosse made huge leaps in last 10 years *
by ndmaqi  (2017-04-12 18:05:28)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Setting aside football...
by John@Indy  (2017-04-12 12:19:55)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...the 2013 soccer title is the only men's NCAA title ND ever has won in any of those sports. Obviously, a three decade championship drought in football is troubling and unprecedented, but there was no halcyon period in which ND was cranking out titles in the other sports you list. Between 1959 and 2013, the only men's NCAA titles were in fencing.


Obviously actually winning championships should be the...
by FL_Irish  (2017-04-12 12:00:32)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...ultimate metric, but I do think that it's worth noting that we were runners up in several men's sports during that timeframe.


including football *
by Tex Francisco  (2017-04-12 12:23:30)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


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