Maybe ND football is doomed to the Bears' fate
by ShermanOaksND (2017-03-15 21:39:58)
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Maybe we won't be like Princeton or the University of Chicago. We easily could have a long-term future like the Bears -- once the preeminent franchise in the NFL, and still showing occasional flashes of excellence (and selling out home games), but overall a mere shell of their former selves, thanks to decades filled mostly with mismanagement.

Bears from 1920-1946 (27 seasons): 7 NFL championships, 2 losing seasons
Bears from 1947-1968 (22 seasons): 1 NFL championship, 6 losing seasons
Bears from 1969-1991 (23 seasons): 1 NFL championship, 12 losing seasons
Bears from 1992-2016 (25 seasons): 0 NFL championships, 15 losing seasons

Look at ND's trajectory:

ND from 1892-1955 (64 seasons): 7 consensus NCs, 1 losing season
ND from 1956-1963 (8 seasons): 0 NCs, 3 losing seasons
ND from 1964-1996 (33 seasons): 4 consensus NCs, 3 losing seasons
ND from 1997-2016 (20 seasons): 0 consensus NCs, 5 losing seasons

It seems ND is winning just enough to continue to keep separating loyal alums and fans from their hard-earned money, and not one bit more than that.


ND and Bears both leadership challenged. As seen with
by Raoul  (2017-03-18 20:11:23)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Blackhawks, it starts with a change at the very top. Everything else is fiddling at the margins.

I say this as a Lions fan who faces the same issue with the Ford Family (though Lions had no long history of success just crappy leadership).

Ricketts was smart with Cubs. He brought in the right people in areas where knowledge and experince was required.


Dallas Cowboys or Montreal Canadiens perhaps? *
by thecontrarian (click here to email the poster)  (2017-03-16 13:26:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Cowboys are trying, Jerry wants to win.
by NDEE01  (2017-03-17 08:50:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

ND is satisfied with mediocre


Trying
by HTownND  (2017-03-17 12:26:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But at some point he needs to look in the mirror and realize there are no more Herschel Walker for a shitload of draft picks trades out there, and Jones wasn't the architect of that trade.

He's a terrible GM, and until he realizes that, the Cowboys are fooked. He's done more to turn stuff over to his kids and football guys, but he still has too much influence in the process. That 90s dynasty wasn't his doing, it was Jimmy Johnson architecting the trade of Herschel Walker.


Wasn't Johnson still at UM when that happened?
by Wooderson  (2017-03-19 08:03:10)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Or was it the 89 season where that trade went down and they got Aikman in the draft?


It wasn't Aikman
by HTownND  (2017-03-20 11:12:39)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They got Emmitt Smith and bunch of other pieces for Walker.

It was in October 1989 when the trade went down in Johnson's first year.


How about the Redskins?
by Groundhog  (2017-03-17 00:00:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Good in the 70s and the late 80s to early 90s. Since that time have been mediocre at best except for a couple seasons where they teased and people thought they were on the right track, none more so than 2012.

Run by morons who keep raking in the dough, but with a fan base that is becoming increasingly apathetic.


As a Redskins fan I've thought that for years. *
by socal_doubledomer74  (2017-03-18 13:34:07)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Montreal Canadians comparison
by NDCHEF1  (2017-03-16 16:43:29)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Sticking with hockey, you could add the Maple Leafs to that comparison.


The Cowboys have a much bigger Jumbotron
by ShermanOaksND  (2017-03-16 13:50:18)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But the Canadiens fit, including the French name. Shamrock Series at Stade Olympique, peut-ĂȘtre?


Hey, but at least we own our stadium *
by G.K.Chesterton  (2017-03-16 12:07:44)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


None of the other comparisons to shitty sports franchises
by miamioh_irishfan  (2017-03-16 11:40:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

really worked, and this one doesn't either.


Few comparisons work on all levels
by ShermanOaksND  (2017-03-16 12:46:00)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And I didn't claim this one does. But the Bears have retained just enough history and tradition of an elite NFL franchise to keep making money off of it, long past the time that they consistently played at an elite level. It would be fair to say ND is already in that zone, and is more likely to stay there for the foreseeable future than to downgrade the football program either to FCS (like the Ivies) or well below that (like Chicago, which is now D-III).


I think we're all just tired of them.
by miamioh_irishfan  (2017-03-16 14:08:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

As a ND and Bears fans, I certainly am.


Try not to suck
by ShermanOaksND  (2017-03-16 18:26:15)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It's the best way to stop the comparisons. It worked for the Cubs.


"Embrace the target." *
by G.K.Chesterton  (2017-03-16 22:12:35)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


It'd be "so Cub" for the Irish to make a run this year. *
by miamioh_irishfan  (2017-03-16 19:50:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


LOLOLOLOL
by wiNDycityfan  (2017-03-17 09:06:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

ND is as close to make a run this year as I am to banging Scarlett Johansson.

Talk about perfect disparities.


It would be Tribune-era Cub-like for ND to make a run in '17
by ShermanOaksND  (2017-03-17 11:45:37)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The Cubs had somewhat random playoff runs in 1984, 1989, and 1998. Each was bookended by losing seasons. In fact, from 1973-1992, the Cubs had only 2 seasons above .500, and both were division championship seasons.

The Cubs were more successful in the '00s, actually managing 6 seasons above .500 with 3 division championships, including only the second consecutive postseason appearances in Chicago's MLB history (last year was the third; the White Sox never have done it). The randomness was on the other end, as they finished in last place in 3 of their 4 losing seasons.

But it wasn't until they hired Theo Epstein that the Cubs had both a commitment to consistent winning and the management in place to pull it off. ND hasn't had that since Ted and Ned retired, although the signs of decay didn't become apparent until the 1994 fall-off and alarmingly obvious in 1997 and beyond. Now it seems all ND can hope for is a random great season like 2012, or even a random good one like 2015. We've had only two top 15 seasons in 20 years, and only one run of consecutive elite bowl appearances (2005-2006, both losses of course).


You are a master at lecturing about the obvious.
by miamioh_irishfan  (2017-03-17 23:33:23)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Good grief.


he posts great info on the sports boards *
by brnd  (2017-03-20 13:50:14)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Who the hell peed in your Wheaties?
by ShermanOaksND  (2017-03-18 18:27:20)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

GFY with your lectures about lecturing. Trust me, if I were to whine comparably about the flaws I see in posts by you and others, I'd have virtually no time for anything else.


I'm a broken record, but throw in the Indiana Hoosiers
by MistakenD  (2017-03-16 07:54:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and that would be a fair summary of my miserable sports fandom since I hit puberty.

Wait a minute...


ND FB & IU BB are in lock stop with each other.
by JoyceSouthGater  (2017-03-16 08:40:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It is an amazing parallel.


Except IU is far better positioned to make a turnaround...
by wiNDycityfan  (2017-03-16 09:56:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

1. Easier to turn a basketball program around than football
2. Can still be considered the flagship basketball program in the Big N/Midwest
3. Despite its shortcomings, still recruiting at a high level
4. Nothing to keep them away from surging back to national basketball elite (academics, probation, et al)
5. A coach away in basketball means a coach away in fortunes


Well, a new coach is in the works.
by MistakenD  (2017-03-16 12:33:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Holy cow.

Beat reporters in Indianapolis will have some backpedaling to do. Doyel said he was staying no matter what.


Apparently the AD told him Crean was staying
by localirishfan  (2017-03-17 06:40:02)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Doyel then went on to write an article saying that alumni and fan persistence got Crean fired.


I'd forgotten that he'd been at IU for 9 seasons
by ShermanOaksND  (2017-03-16 12:39:35)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

More ominous for the ND comparison is that Crean was fired 6 years after his last losing season. He was below .500 his first 3 seasons and above his last 6, although only 4 of those teams made the NCAAs and none went past the Sweet 16.

I'd also forgotten that he's a Harbaugh-in-law.


Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey is better comparison *
by Frank Drebin  (2017-03-16 06:15:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


At the end, they were just rolling out "The Bearded Man!"
by MistakenD  (2017-03-16 07:50:38)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

"Huge Midgets!"...5'8" guys walking around.


(This is borrowed from a Jeff Rothpan skit famously presented on The Bob and Tom Show.)




While we're rolling out a geriatric Ozzy Osbourne.
by SWPaDem  (2017-03-16 08:22:10)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I can see the similarities.


How did the Ozzy thing start?
by frickerdog  (2017-03-16 09:52:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

There was always one student at dorm parties who you didn't want to take control of the music. I am picturing him being in charge of the ND stadium sound system.


Somebody here once posted
by GolfJunkie17  (2017-03-16 12:37:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

That the music they play over the stadium p.a. is music that old people think young people think is cool. I wish I could cite who posted it, because it is a great description.


I think more than one person has said that, and it's spot-on *
by ShermanOaksND  (2017-03-16 14:05:32)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


USC game in 2011. And the sound was jacked to way above 11.
by SWPaDem  (2017-03-16 10:43:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And I agree. You would think there's some adult somewhere in the hierarchy who would finally say we need to back off this stuff. You would think.


And it was about the only song they played.
by The Oak  (2017-03-16 11:00:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

So it played over and over and over.

And I believe we lost didn't we?

Fair bet over the last 20 years anyway.


It was the only song.
by SWPaDem  (2017-03-16 11:26:57)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And I remember the USC players getting more juiced with the music than our players. There was the Crist fumble on the goal line play and Kelly quitting on the team with three minutes left.

I left the stadium that evening wondering if what I just saw was the beginning of the end. Other than the intervening 2012 season, I'd have to say yes for sure now.


I miss the days of Tom Hammond barkin for the Yak Woman. *
by Porpoiseboy  (2017-03-16 07:13:46)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Ah, the good old days. Pat Haden could guess your weight. *
by ArasEra  (2017-03-16 12:54:36)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


And insofar as the bearded lady goes, at least she had
by SWPaDem  (2017-03-16 07:05:02)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

a game plan that worked.


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