I'm not so sure of that
by NavyJoe (2016-08-20 19:17:51)
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  In reply to: Arrelious Benn had an 890 SAT.  posted by Tdiddy07



Last year, Kelly said that almost every player on our team would not have gotten in to ND were they not a FB player. I have read that Kelly gets more concessions than Weis did but regardless I am confident the gulf between the average FB player and average student is probably wider than it has ever been.


That may say more about the student body now than
by athlete37  (2016-08-20 20:02:02)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

the football players. Admissions only get tougher and tougher each year.


That's been true for decades.
by tdiddy07  (2016-08-20 19:57:08)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

When I was in school there were only a handful of players who had a shot at regular admissions. Travis Leitko and Barry Gallup are the only ones I recall being in the median SAT range. I think maybe there were a couple of others that may have been in the ballpark. Carlson maybe. I don't know what the median is at ND for black students through regular admissions. It's possible the discount could be significant enough to put a couple more football players into play in the regular pool than I realized. But I see no difference between Kelly's recruits and the recruits the 15 years prior.

Apparently in 1993, average student body SAT was 1220 and football 899. In 2015, it was 1400 and 1025. (To be fair, I read this on a bleacher report article, but it seemed specific enough to be based on a source.) The gap has risen about 45 points. So, I could see Lou having more players within the regular admissions range. But I also doubt he had notably more underneath such minimal levels to be at risk of not being able to do the work. I believe the reports that Lou was strangled a bit in his later years. And I could see Kelly having more exceptions than Davie or Ty.

And based on my own following of reported SAT scores during the Ty and Weis eras when I followed recruiting much more closely and from conversations from people in athletic tutoring when I was in school and later worked in admissions, I don't think Kelly has any easier time getting in borderline kids than Weis did. I think any perception that he does is idle chatter from unnamed sources that speculate every time one of ND's coaching targets turns us down.


Do you know how difficult it is to be accepted now?
by irish2x  (2016-08-20 19:46:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Yes, we have enjoyed recruits who were incredibly stellar students, but those are profoundly rare. Look at some of Holtz's players. Talk about a continental academic divide between student body and student-athlete. It is clear that you hate Kelly. I'm not a huge fan either. But your statements here ignore some pretty standard history at Notre Dame. Weis certainly received concessions.

And Max Redfield, despite recent history, has been considered a very bright student. As are many on the team and some who have recently left. Christ, you people act like we are LSU all of a sudden. That Corey Robinson was a phantom. That Jerry Tillery is a phantom. That Schmidt and Sheldon Day are phantoms.


Read the first paragraph of this article
by NavyJoe  (2016-08-20 19:53:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

That statement is right from BK.

Jesus, people that cover ND for a living have affirmed that BK--whom I don't hate actually--gets more concessions than his predecessors. I'm not saying he has it easier than Lou; I am saying he's had it easier than Weis, Ty, and Davie.


That says nothing that hasn't been the case for decades.
by tdiddy07  (2016-08-20 19:59:32)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It makes it sound like his job is harder when he labels kids outside normal admissions as "at risk." But he's in no different position than his predecessors.


I have an independent source who has told me before that BK
by SUJB9  (2016-08-20 20:06:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

gets more leeway than Weis in terms of admissions. And this is someone who works in admissions during both coaches' tenures. If you're still saying that BK isn't in a different position than Weis, you're ignoring the facts.


While I'm skeptical, if true, that wouldn't speak well to
by tdiddy07  (2016-08-20 20:15:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Kelly's recruiting given that he's been recruiting on better results than Weis's and his results are about the same on National Signing Day, and that doesn't account for the fact that he lost several of his best recruits before they made it to campus or within the first year.


In fairness to BK, some of Weis's classes were over-ranked
by NavyJoe  (2016-08-20 20:26:07)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Like grossly over-ranked.


There's a problem with judging the sterngth of the class
by tdiddy07  (2016-08-20 20:53:18)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

by the performances achieved under a coach who went 3-9, 6-6, 6-6. And it was the same methodology all the other classes have been ranked by. Calling a recruiting class "overrated" or "underrated" seems to me to not make much sense if it's based on college performance. If it's ranked high, he likely got a lot of his top targets, which means he recruited well. Whether they turn out to be good players is based on some other variables.

Now his first full class had a lot of 3 stars and high numbers. But good coaches also tend to do more with them if given that many to pick from. It could be that the methodology was poor, but I've have to see other examples of similarly structured classes and see how they turned out.


I was bothered more by your statement about the divide
by irish2x  (2016-08-20 19:58:43)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

between players and students. It's a grand statement that overlooks quite a bit of history and it's demeaning to a number of players under Kelly who have done and are doing quite well.


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