After 4 years in the ACC, what do you think about the status
by MPG (2017-05-30 19:17:10)
Edited on 2017-05-30 19:17:59
[ cannot delete ]   [ Edit ]   [ Return to Jake's Field ]   [ Show All Thread ]   [ Ignore Poster ]   [ Report Post ]   [ Highlight Poster ]   [ Reply ]

 


of the baseball and softball programs?

Baseball has had one good season two years ago and has tailed off badly the past two seasons. The worst stat for this season was the difference in errors between ND and its opponents: something like 73 vs. 43! It seems clear that the time has arrived for new leadership, although I am surprised that Aoki could make BC competitive in the ACC, but has failed with ND. His program has not met the challenge of the ACC.

Softball seems to be doing worse each season since joining the ACC, although even this year the team was invited to the NCAA tournament. However the team has never won a regional in 22 tries.As others noted much earlier in this season, the lack of dominant pitching has doomed this team for several years, especially in the post-season. One positive note is the addition of two pitchers for next year, one of whom is a top ten recruit. The third Wester will also join the team and Coach Gumpf considers this to be her best class. The ACC is a tougher conference than the Big East, but not nearly as tough as the SEC or PAC.


The ACC is awfully good in baseball.
by WilfordBrimley  (2017-06-01 00:34:01)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

No excuses at all for Aoki, because if IU and, especially, Oregon State can have some success, there is no reason that ND cannot, but this is a damn difficult conference now. It is comparable to the SEC and PAC 12 (ranks ahead of the PAC 12 in RPI right now, for that matter) and Big XII. It's definitely the best baseball conference ND has ever been in, and really, that should be a selling point when recruiting against Michigan and IU and virtually every other Midwestern and East Coast program.

An elite program with which I am familiar - Louisville - absolutely feasts off good Midwestern recruits (McDonnell basically sweeps the Midwest for almost all of his good players). This isn't football, and there are a lot of good prospects to be found in Illinois and Indiana and Pennsylvania and Michigan and Ohio; take a look at the origins of Louisville's bevy of draft prospects from the last decade - a few are from Kentucky but most are from the Midwest. Tuition is a problem, but that can be overcome with the right support.


9 Louisville players are from Kentuckiana and
by ProV1x  (2017-06-12 18:09:33)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

3 more are from nearby. Louisville has always been a baseball town since back before Mr. Hillerich carved that first bat for Pete Browning. Louisville was also once a major league franchise and might still be today except for politics.


ACC is difficult, but ....
by NDoggie78  (2017-06-05 10:59:50)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Using the "Northern" excuse is getting old.
These northern schools (north of the Ohio River) made the tourney:
Oregon St
Holy Cross
Yale
Nebraska
St. Johns
Delaware
Illinois-Chicago
Michigan
Iowa
Indiana
Ohio
Xavier
Oral Roberts
Marist
Central Connecticut State

Granted, many made it because their conferences are much weaker than the ACC, but can we actually argue we should have been in the tourney ahead of these teams?

Your Louisville example is great - while not really a "northern" team, they aren't a really a southern team either. If Notre Dame had McDonnell, I think we would have close to the same success as he is having at UofL.
Of course McDonnell was the highest paid baseball coach in the NCAA (UF passed this with O'Sullivan's contract last year), so would ND actually come up with the $$$ for the right coach?


He had 4 losing (ACC) records at BC
by ndgotrobbedin97  (2017-05-30 22:50:41)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

12-17, 9-21, 13-15 and 14-16. His NCAA regional year at BC was a 34-26 overall record.

He also never had a winning record in Ivy League play at Columbia. Over 5 years his best year was 10-10.

So, I don't know. Is it Aoki or ND? Or both.


It's multifactoral and likely to remain the same
by mrock90  (2017-05-30 19:33:58)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Barring a change in programmatic approach. The big east was about right for what ND puts into baseball and what kind of programs they were competing against. ND joined ACC and didn't alter how they do things...went from having competitive advantage in overall talent and facilities as well as tradition with similar weather and pool of prospects to a large step up in talent/ depth and huge competitive disadvantage in terms of facilities/weather/tradition/ cost of attendance, etc. So looking at how the ND program is-- irrespective of the coach, unless they make the conscious decision to upgrade facility/ environment/ aid, etc, I expect them to hover around the low middle/ bottom of the ACC for the foreseeable future


Good points made about the Big East being the right
by MPG  (2017-05-30 19:40:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

level for ND, given its level of support for baseball. This has been true for a number of ND programs once they were exposed to ACC competition after having succeeded easily at times in the Big East.


What other program is that true of? I don't think there are
by Slotts  (2017-05-30 20:37:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

any other programs that that is true of.


Women's lacrosse and soccer, both tennis teams, both
by MPG  (2017-05-31 13:07:25)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

swimming teams, and men's golf are finding it tougher to win in the ACC than they did in the Big East. The hope, of course, is that they will eventually rise to the competition.


Can't speak to the others but...
by FL_Irish  (2017-05-31 21:39:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...women's tennis is suffering from a general decline in the program not a move to the ACC. 10 years ago they were a perennial Sweet 16 team and at their peak a Final Four team. They could compete with the class of the ACC back then. Jay Louderback did an amazing job building that program, but it's time for some new blood.

That also seems a bizarre way to characterize women's soccer given that it was a national powerhouse.


Women's soccer lost in its 2016 NCAA tournament opener
by MPG  (2017-06-01 10:28:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

at home to SIU-Edwardsville. The previous year the team was shutout in the second round by former Big East foe, Connecticut. National powerhouses don't lose that early in the post-season and recruiting seems to be less effective than it was before joining the ACC. Adding Nate Norman to the coaching staff should help all aspects of the program.


Right, which is indicative of a decline in the program...
by FL_Irish  (2017-06-01 10:32:45)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...not "we're as good as we've always been it's just that we're in a new conference where it's harder to win."


I think baseball/ softball uniquely affected
by mrock90  (2017-05-30 20:41:37)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Particularly because of the numbers and depth needed to compete over the grind of the season...more so a baseball because of numbers of pitchers required for the course of the season


I agree with baseball, but I don't agree with softball. We
by Slotts  (2017-05-30 20:47:25)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

are right where we were before. Make the NCAA and don't make the super regionals. 22 years in a row now.


That is honestly an utterly ridiculous record
by ndgotrobbedin97  (2017-05-31 15:55:21)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Think about how hard it is to do one without the other over 2 decades. You were NEVER the better/best team just one time? Never? Yet, you were good enough to get there. It's baffling how that could occur again and again and again and again. Even more baffling is how the NCAA committee never shut you out after all that failure. You'd think the track record of failure was clear.


softball and baseball are really warm weather sports
by dbcsmith  (2017-05-31 11:25:46)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

dominated by California, Texas, and the SE where you can play outdoors year round and where you won't hurt your arm pitching too much in the cold. It takes incredible effort to recruit to a Northern school when a kid could go to a warm weather school especially when talking about state schools who can give free rides to in state students w/o putting them on scholarships using state lottery monies like South Carolina and Georgia have and using scholarship money to give larger percentage scholarships to out of state students. Whereas at a private school they must divide the 11 scholarship among 25+ players and the remaining costs are still high unless they qualify for a lot of financial aid due to need.


Thank God Fr. Sorin and Knute Rockne didn't think like you .
by CJC  (2017-06-03 13:12:13)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

you keep making excuses, ignoring the success that Pat Murphy and Paul Manieri had at Notre Dame, and we'll keep getting the sorry performances we've been getting recently.

Maybe climate change had something to do with the fact that Murphy and Manieri could produce sustained excellence in Northern Indiana while Aoki can't possibly do any better than the crap we've seen.

Notre Dame -- athletically and otherwise -- has achieved greatness in spite of great obstacles.


I don't think that argument
by chicos bail bonds  (2017-05-31 21:21:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

holds water anymore across the board. These sports certainly have a majority of teams competing at high levels from the west and south; however, we are beginning to see big ten teams make a dent. I don't believe the excuse holds in regards to the weather. The Minnesota softball team won 55 games I believe and took Alabama to the wire in two NCAA tournament games.


Agree. Michigan softball won a NC & is a perennial power. *
by hibernianangst  (2017-05-31 22:19:51)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Yeah but Michigan is the only cold weather program to do so
by mikeybates  (2017-05-31 23:57:42)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

All time, 9/70 CWS and 1/35 CWWS winners are from "cold weather" schools. It is a major disadvantage.


So did Washington. And Oklahoma ain't South Bend weather
by FL_Irish  (2017-05-31 22:54:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...wise. But nor is it South Beach.


Nebraska has also been to 8 Women's College World Series. *
by hibernianangst  (2017-06-01 09:21:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Missouri has also been to 6 Women's College World Series. *
by hibernianangst  (2017-06-01 09:31:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


DePaul has also been to 4 Women's College World Series. *
by hibernianangst  (2017-06-01 09:34:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Northwestern has also been to 5 Women's College World Series *
by hibernianangst  (2017-06-01 09:36:38)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Iowa has also been to 4 Women's College World Series. *
by hibernianangst  (2017-06-01 09:53:29)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


That is exactly the case
by mrock90  (2017-05-31 16:23:51)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And why ND did fine in big east and not so fine in ACC...at least that's a big part of it


I'd agree w that
by mrock90  (2017-05-30 20:52:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I don't really follow softball so I guess I shouldn't speculate;
They tend to only use a couple pitchers though


Alexis Holloway and Morgan Ryan are the two highly
by MPG  (2017-05-31 13:12:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

regarded pitchers. und.com just posted an article about them today.


They have potential. They must have competent coaching.
by hibernianangst  (2017-05-31 17:07:34)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The current staff has not proven they can develop elite pitching. This lack of competence also extends to the softball off season conditioning. It takes strong legs and endurance to be an elite pitcher, something not found in Notre Dame pitchers.


True, they don't need nearly as many pitchers. *
by Slotts  (2017-05-30 23:11:13)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


The contents of this post represent the views of the author. NDNation.com is not responsible for its contents.