On The Job Training
posted by The Rock
At the this point it's hard to understand how a realistic fan could have confidence that Notre Dame will improve to championship caliber under Weis. Yes, the talent pipeline is stocked and Notre Dame will be a power two years from now (that's what happens when good players mature,) but is Weis capable of taking the team over the threshold? Right now, I'm not even sure we'll run the table against Navy and Syracuse.We're not in a position of strength coaching-wise to make the leap which at this point isn't from Good to Great, but from Poor to less Poor. We've lost three out of our last four games and six straight to Boston College. Saturday offically busts the positive trendline that started forming at the end of last season.
It was a big risk to promote Haywood to offensive playcaller while calling Weis's scheme. It's halfway there and a wing and a prayer.
Last March, I wrote in If Weis fails that, "Haywood is completely unproven as a playcaller. If he were turning the playcalling over to Chow, that would make perfect sense. If you think about this (and this is scary) we now have a completely inexperienced offensive coordinator, a defensive coordinator with one year of experience and a special teams coach with little experience and a track record of under performance. This is Notre Dame Football?"
In short, and yeah this is part 20/20, an experienced coach probably wouldn't make this move (see Pete Carroll.) We "still" can't pass protect against a three man line. No one needs a fancy offense, look at Alabama. Now granted they don't have all true juniors along the OL, but simplicity works when you have good players. Execution > Scheme.
The bottom line is that after almost four years, Weis is throwing darts. He's still a coach in training and there's little assurance, other than stockpiling talent, that he has what it takes to get it done.
Of course the flipside here is what happens to Notre Dame if we go in another direction, swallow the buyout and end up on the short end of the coaching carousel again. I've yet to see a "good" coach hiring process from any team and making a move without having anyone lined up could be disastrous... and Weis hasn't yet proven he won't make it.
But at this point, the odds are against him. Some losses are tough to come back from and Saturday's might just be the dagger. Tough to tell yet, but the debacle in Boston might just be the psychological tipping point for Charlie Weis.
The book isn't closed yet, but fans like this subway alum are going to be tougher to come by. Everyone still wants a winner, but fewer are expecting it and that's a sad state. And after a 3-9 season and dead mid-season stall, everyone has to be a skeptic.

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Michael said...
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Skeptcism is always warranted.
If this coach didn't take 2 teams to BCS bowls (with essentially 1 top ten recruiting class), I would be more skeptical.
If changes are not made at the end of the season, I would be more skeptical.
7-5, 8-4, 9-3 seasons are not that different.
This is essentially his 2nd year. He will get a 3rd.
Seriously, how can ANYONE support this guy at this point??? He is turning out to be one of the worst coaches ever. So he can recruit, then let him be demoted to recruiter (as if ND can't attract talent without Weis). Last season was beyond terrible and this season really just shows what kind of head coach Weis is. Please, pull your head out of the denial sand and let's get an EXPERIENCED head coach for 2009!
If Weis really loves Notre Dame he should resign. He expresses no shame in repeated losses. He is not even ashamed of his own mistakes. Father Hesburg should have expelled when he demanded to see the President of Notre Dame play calling under Dan Devine.
¡ I think Navy is a team that can beat ND ! I'm glad Weis will call the offense while consulting with Mike Haywood & Rob Ianello.
Now is the time to win the game to be bowl elligible (& maybe end up in the Sun Bowl in El Paso Texas for New Years Eve). I hope ND wins one more game & maybe ends up in the Cotton Bowl in Dallas !
Charlie Weis is really Gerry Faust after spending 20 years eating at McDonald's.
Why do people count the BCS bowl appearances as some evidence of Weis's greatness?
ND beat 0 good teams on their way to both of those BCS appearances. They got picked to the bowl not based on the strength of the team, but on the strength of the ND brand.
ND was outclassed in both games.
Next year will seal his fate. All of the building of this program through recruiting and experience
gained by this young team will bear its fruit in 2009. It is a BCS game or he is done. If you fire him now what the verbal committs leave and you will see a lot of players asking to be released from their scholarships
Three games ago, I figured that the Irish might have a slight chance against USC the way that they were playing.
After the game Saturday, I said that I can't watch them play anymore this year.
It's too rough.
Watching the Irish play is like listening to fingernails on a chalkboard.
Charlie has assembled a very talented team, but I'm afraid that it with take another head coach to win a Championship with them.
What a shame.
Charlie is a great guy, but just not a College Coach.
'listless' best describes teams coached by Weis. You can have all the talent in the world but, if that talent doesn't buy into the coach and his philosophies, than 'paper talent' is useless...ND can recruit on its' own merits and while his three Super Bowl rings may have impressed the current crop, a 10-3 record (with 3 blow out losses to top teams) a 3-9 and now a no better than 7-5 clunker of a season should be enough to grade his abilities...we have yet to see the offensive line improve under his leadership; we have yet to see a true running back emerge under his leadership and we have to see the QB improve 21 games into his development...If we were in the SEC, the record would be 1-8 at best...cut the losses now and move on...we have seen enough of this poor representation of the school both in appearance, the way he seemingly treats people off the field and his lack of personal accountability. This latest move of now taking over play calling is the last salvo and should provide enough fodder for Mr. Swarbrick to look and find an experienced coach who minimally won't allow his team to get its' rear ends handed to them in the trenches...enough is enough!!!
This team isn't good enough to step up and win a game when it is there for the taking. The North Carolina and Pitt games painfully made that point clear. As far as firing Charlie, what a bunch of pathetic whiners. Like I said earlier, this team isn't capable of stepping up. Anybody that thinks this is a "solid" team needs a reality check.
Let me spell it out for everyone in a nice bullet list of why Weis IS NOT THE GUY to be leading the Irish.
1. He can't inspire his team.
2. He was an offensive guru who now is not calling plays...wait...now he is..wait...now he isnt...this sounds like Maust with the ball punting...make up your frigging mind.
3. He doesnt seem to be very upset about being mediocre.
4. The OL has gotten worse each year.
5. He can't blame Davie or Ty..(even though they both sucked) anymore...and his team still sucks.
6. He has the biggest bust in the recruiting era (Beano once said he'd win two Heisman's) Pawlus...Ron PAWLUS...mentoring his qb...what the hell? are you kidding me?
7. He gets top recruits but still cant seem to get the best talent out of them...
8. He cant seem to find a freaking running back? Not one of them..has break away speed..if he had any stones, he'd put Tate as his running back...and Gray as his other running back...
9. He is, as rock pointed out..on the job training..not good enough...this is ND.
10. His teams have actually regressed...it's time to cut our losses...
NO MORE EXCUSES...
AS i read through all the comments i realize that these negative fans represent exactly what they believe is the problem with the team. No fight!!! We have the talent, we have the coaches, we need the fight!!! That comes from the players being emotional not business like which charlie has repeatedly pushed the players to do. AS a fan with fight i suggest as they pass you on campus give them support. As a fighter period guys you should celebrate each play you make on the field like you just won the super bowl and then come back the next play and hit the opponent in the mouth until the final whistle blows. When you cross those side lines and enter the field of play you need to hate your opponent until the game is over and then show sportsmanship. right now that is what everyone else is doing to us!!!
Ely Boy-
Turn in your fan card! Criticize all you want, express your opinion on the coach and players, suggest areas for improvement, rant, rave, curse, swear, jump up and down, but once you stop supporting this team, don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out and don't come back. True fans support Our Lady's team through thick and thin. We suffer through the Fausts, Davie's and Willinghams confident that the next Holtz is around the corner. Watch and support the Irish or turn in your fan card and go root for Michigan, your fair-weather support won't be welcome at the next national championship celebration.
Not ONE ND fan expected the Irish to win more than 9,8,or 7 wins this year. Why has everyone lost control and touch with what Weis is doing here? And I'm not using a shut out from BC as an excuse, but come on! CW is bringing in the talent that once flourished in the late 80's and early 90's. They will continue to get better and a easy schedule again next year won't hurt either, or will it?
Go look at the ESPN draft projections: Not a single ND player in the top two rounds. One could argue Bruton belongs there, but there is (still) a HUGE talent gap between Notre Dame and the type of team people here want us to be and the type of team ND should be.
I don't know that Weis will fix the problems we have. I think he is as aware of them as we are. Whether he can fix them or not, I don't know.
But I do know this: Some of the talk on this board makes me sick to be a fan. For those of you who haven't noticed, we are more than a football program. If you're so big on tradition, show some of the class associated with the school.
bbb95...what Kool Aid are you sipping from.
Gimme a break...
This coach is worse than, and I hate to say this...but he's the worst coach WE'VE EVER HAD AT NOTRE DAME...period.
ND recruits itself...we have the history, the tv contract, the exposure, the nfl pedigree.
NOW LETS GET A REAL DAMN FOOTBALL COACH..
YOu may be content with Mediocrity..but TRUE ND FANS ARE NOT
sincerely.
THE CLOSER
After looking at the Weis vs. Butch Davis at Miami post, which was very interesting because Davis had to deal with a talent loss that was as bad as what Weis has had to endure (in fact, ND was probably worse. Davis was able to go the juco route and pick up Jeremy Shockey and a few other key players), Davis, in Year 4 had almost the same record as Weis.
Davis ended that year by getting thrashed 66 - 13. The next week they upset UCLA at the OB.
What a bunch of losers. I mean the posters here, not the Irish. All of you thought CW was a genius few years ago. Now, all of a sudden, he can't coach? Anybody can see that this has nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with foolish disrespectful Administration decisions, like "renovating" Rockne's House and driving all our ghosts out (including probably Rock himself), those ineffective canned "pep rallies" that the docile students acquiesce in, extending the stadium seating to block Touchdown Jesus’ view of most of the field, that NBC contract with “color” guy Pat Hayden (straight from the bowels of USC), tearing down the old Fieldhouse, letting underclassmen stroll up and down the Administration Building steps like they own the place, and on and on and on. What’s next, changing the colors to red and gold? Changing the Victory March to Born to Lose? Astroturf? Letting girls in? As Gandhi said, “Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat the future.”
How can you point to Weis as the reason ND lost to BC? He didn't throw four interceptions or have a punt blocked. Look at how the defense performed - they only gave up 10 points and kept us in the game.
The defense has made great strides under Charlie Weis and so has the offensive line - whether you want to admit it or not. Jimmy Clausen is developing nicely, he just has a propensity to throw interceptions that kill drives. That will get better next season. Jimmy will go down as one of the greatest QBs in ND history if Weis stays at ND.
Weis isn't the problem. The players need to step up and give their best effort at all times. Even Golden Tate admitted that they came out flat in the second half at Pittsburgh. We've held double digit leads against two ranked teams this season. If we win one of those games, no one is calling for Weis to be fired.
And if we get rid of Weis right now, that assumes that there's somebody better out there. Who would want the job if we've fired our last two coaches after giving them big extensions? Nobody would want that job.
Stick with Weis. He's the answer.
Those two teams were proven not to be of BCS quality. Did you watch the games?
ND owes it to the talent that it has recruited to give them the best chance to develop and win. The coach is also a teacher. If there was an accounting teacher that failed in teaching accounting theories and concepts, would they be given more time?
CW is a fraud. I am from New England. The Patriots cheated and Weis' resume was the beneficiary.
In years 1 and part of 2, other coaches hadn't figured out Weis. Now, everybody knows what he can and can't do. Or Ty taught the players fundamentals that Weis was able to call plays with, but the fundamentals are now missing.
Let's call a spade a spade and move on from CW. I can't beleive ND gave this guy an extension before his first 12 months on the job - typical ND administration - worrying about students drinking instead of making $4 Million/year mistakes.
ND needs to move now. They can't sell out home games and once NBC realizes they might as well show Harvard, football at ND will be irrelevant on a permanent basis.
Never forget this: No one coach in Notre Dame HISTORY has had Charlie Weis' record-to-date and survived, let alone gone on to a great ND career.
Charlie Weis IS the coach of Notre Dame's WORST single season record in HISTORY. This fact, alone, sealed his fate.
Charlie Weis, ND Alum, and Head Football Coach, has to look himself in the mirror every morning, and know/understand these FACTS. If Charlie Weis were a student today, he would be calling for the head of Charlie Weis.
If Charlie Weis is a TRUE Notre Dame MAN, he will leave on his own. He will NOT make the University pay for its mistake, and his failure. He is NOT, nor will he EVER be a great coach of a great Notre Dame Football Program.
We need to move forward. Sure, two years from now, ND may have a very good team. But, at best, under Charlie Weis, we will be a 9-3, maybe a 10-2 football team. And maybe, we'll be back in a Major Bowl. And maybe, the game will be competitive. And maybe, we'll even win. But 9-3 or 10-2, and a "maybe win" in some big bowl game just IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. This will be, at best, what you "might" expect from Weis. Let's move on now. Let's get ourselves an energetic, proven, COLLEGE coach. Let's take our chances with him. Or would you rather have Charlie Weis?
Would you rather have the coach who has to beat ALL HISTORIC ND COACHING ODDS, and go from goat to greatness. Anybody with ANY common sense would NOT bet on his success. Let's get rid of Charlie Weis.
~mpsND'72
I've read countless postings over the past 24 hours, and I'm still waiting on an idea about a replacement for Charlie. I don't claim to have the answers, but before you all start calling for his head, how about providing a solution???
You guys should give Jim Harbaugh a look-see.
To fire Coach Weis now would be conclusive evidence of bias and gross discrimination against men from New Jersey. This is against everything that ND stands for! As far as a replacement how about that guy at UConn who will kick our bottoms at home next year?
It is time to cut our losses and move on. Weis has fallen to 1-15 in his last 16 games against teams with winning records. This futility is absolutely unacceptable.
He has proven he cannot put this team in the best position to win. Whether it be playcalling, keeping assistant coaches who do not develope players, or not be able to bring an intensity to his teams...which is a necessity in college football.
Yes, Weis is a great recruiter, but bringing in talented players is only part of the equation. Developing those players and producing on the field are a must. Two areas Weis has not been able to achieve in any of his four years.
ND has more than enough talent to be a top 25 team. Teams like TCU, Cal, Mich. State, and even Boston College do not have near the same caliber players as ND. However, coaches like Gary Patterson at TCU have proven themselves at the college ranks year after year with far less talent than ND.
We need a coach that is a proven winner at the college level. The players deserve better. They can see that the current coaching staff is hurting the program more than helping. They will not transfer if Weis steps down/is fired. They play for the University of Notre Dame, not Weis and Co.
Hopefully the adminstration understands that Notre Dame strives for excellence in every facet of life...academics, community service, athletics, etc. Football is just one more area where mediocrity is not good enough at Notre Dame.
The players, students, and fans all deserve better than what Weis has shown he can do.
GO IRISH!
I'm so sick of hearing this "talent gap" crap I'm about to explode. BC had maybe two players that were recruited by ND and they outplayed and out toughed the Irish on Saturday night. Oh yeah, I forgot the party line is that ND can't be successful unless they are top heavy with seniors and 5th year seniors.
Giving Haywood the reins to the offense scared the daylights out of me because you don't go from running backs coach for 7-8 years to O-coordinator at ND. If you look at most of the staffs of top teams their coordinators gradually progressed from position coaches to coordinator at a WAC or MAC school for a few years then on to the big time.
Weis must assume offensive play calling and possibly demote Haywood back to running backs coach while bringing in an "up and comer" play caller next year. The O-line play was much better under Davie and Willingham. No talent this year you say? USC made Sam Young their #1 lineman recruit and were even interested in Wenger but he already committed to ND.
The other excuse is ND is too young at certain positions. Well, USC in 2004 had a freshman WR (Jarret) a sophomore WR (Smith) two sophomore RB's (Bush, White) and two sophomores along the offensive line, yet they won they national championship scoring 55 points in the Orange Bowl. If Weis was coaching USC that year they would have finished 7-4 and got blown out in the bowl game.
This team's vital signs are fading and Weis may have lost this team.
A few points.
1. John Latina must go. One consistent issue during the Weis years, mediocre to terrible O-line. Everyone realizes you can leave 3 down linemen and they will get penetration in short order. Hmm I wonder why Clausen is always throwing into traffic?
2. Committing to the running game does not mean running 6 straight running plays to start a game, realizing that we are incapable of being a one dimensional running team and giving up on running. There is rarely a situation when we surprise anyone with run/pass play selection. (Except inexplicably in 3rd or 4th and 15 situations we decide to try an low percentage draw play.)
3. Weis has made mistakes but he is smart, able to adapt, and a great recruiter. Will he bring us to the promised land? I am not sure, I know we will be a very good team next year, but I can see him being a bit of a John Cooper perhaps, incapable of winning the big ones. The next two years will tell.
4. Firing Weis would be foolish at this point. You would have to have a what we percieve to be a great coach lined up before... oh we tried that last time. Firing Weis would injure our ability to bring in a top line coach.
5. Ron Powlus, indeed I have my doubts as well.
6. Weis' major deficiency is the inability to motivate players at this level. He needs to improve on this.
7. The right move is don't panic, let go of Latina at year end. I will settle for this plus at least 8 wins (including a bowl win).
What though the odds be great or small....
After watching the Irish this season it is apparent there has been improvement. With the exception of the BC game, this team has played good, not great, not bad, but good. If the 07 Irish were playing the 08 schedule 5-4 would be no better 2-7 (Washington and Michigan would probably be the only wins). This is not coaching, this is players maturing. Once these players learn how to win (which is something a coach cannot teach) they will cross the tresh hold and become the team we all want them to be. A coach can only put players in a position to win. I do say our defense needs to tackle better, our line needs to block better, and our backs need better vision, but improvement is visible. A coach cannot play the game, only the players can. How many time have you heard numerous commentators on numerous networks talk about how linemen do not truly mature until they are late juniors or even seniors? How many seniors are on our line right now? ONE. This team will be right where we expect it before we know it.
And by the way, if ND can recruit solely on its own blessed name, where were all the recruits when Charlie took the job? We gave the man the hammer, now, let him finish his house.
Just as those who are certain that CW is not the man for ND, I am adamantly truly certain that he is the guy. The difference is I am not concerned with the flavor of the day but far more interested in building stone by stone on a solid foundation. That is what is happening, and CW said as much when he was hired and critiquing the program. I am absolutely amazed at the sunshine patriots/fans that claim to support college football's most storied program while making posts that do as much damage as can be done by posters. I sure hope the PTB are completely independent of this sad bunch of whiners.
Notre Dame is an average or below average D1 program. That is a fact. Do you realize how long it's been since ND was relevant? About 15 years. That is an eternity. Think about it, the kids who are getting recruited right now are about 17 years old. That means for their entire friggin lives, ND has either absolutely sucked or had a phony AP-voter driven season that led them to a major bowl, where they were completely embarrassed by a team that actually earned its way there. You know full well the games I am talking about. There is not an incoming recruit who can even say they ever remember seeing ND win a single bowl game. Times have changed, and the game has totally passed ND by. No longer is there an advantage with the TV contracts. No longer is there an advantage playing a national schedule. Football is conference-driven and ND thought they were above that. And those Top 5 recruiting classes? The recruits are as overrated as the program. Nailbiter wins over the likes of San Diego State at home gets them AP votes. C'mon. Whatta joke. As soon as a recruit is being wooed by ND, they go from a 2 stars to 4 stars. Same player though, and the player sucks. Further underscoring, with those "horrible," "atrocious" Ty Willingham recruiting classes, ND still got top 40 classes, or so the rankings went. If that were true, why were they unable to be a top 40 team? The program is in total shambles and it will never, ever be any good ever again. Enjoy. "The beatings will continue until morale improves."
" Anonymous said...
Not ONE ND fan expected the Irish to win more than 9,8,or 7 wins this year."
- And with the easy schedule this year, those low expectations ALONE should have gotten Weis fired! What have we sunk to? We should be expecting no losses, ever! Head Coach Weis has turned out to be one big armchair quarterback coach couch potato. Sadly, it is true. He was lucky to be at New England and showed dedication and "hard work" which got noticed. New England's success can not be attributed to Weis at this point, he was just lucky, aww shucks. ND was desperate for a new coach and Weis was able to do the Notre Dame speak that impressed the people doing the hiring....they had to choose fast since the hiring process was looking like it was going down in flames at the time and embarrassing ND and the new president-elect Jenkins. Weis should be permanently benched.
Look, everybody is tired of loosing. I get up for every game and let down; every time...even some of the wins this year were disheartening. At the end of the day though all this negativity is not going to do a damn bit of positive for recruiting or this teams future. The coaches, players and administration are not proud right now, they know they are not doing good and have to pick it up, BIG TIME!, but people we won 3 games last year, 3! We are going double that this year and will have some real upper classmen next year (wow). To be honest with you it’s my fault I expected so much out of a 3-9 team. There is one thing that does bother me though. If we don’t start playing with some heart and I don’t mean playing hard, I mean playing as hard as you possibly can every play and by hard I mean leaving it all on the field and if you lose you know you did the best you possibly could, by hard I mean taking it personally, by hard I mean loving the game. I hope you guys start fighting. Shout out to my Grandpa Wally (ND Law class of 69) biggest ND fan ever, fought hard before he passed away June, 19, 2008
The last Weis supporter should simply put the TV on mute whenever Weis speaks and just watch what happens on the field and let the results do the speaking. I can not believe that ANYONE would support Weis at this point. The last hope is recruiting...which anyone should be able to do since it is ND......why are the supporters always pointing to recruiting and NOT Weis' coaching and teaching ability??? Please, just give it up for the sake of ND football....we need a new head coach and we need him now!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I say fire the guy who hired the guy - and the guy before him - and the guy before him! We hired a guy with no head coaching expierence at any level - none!!! So now we complain that it is on the job training! Go figure!!!
P.S. Why have the NFL teams stopped calling? Why is Weis no longer a "hot" commodity in the NFL? Who would hire this guy now?
I have been staying positive for the last 2 years saying repeatedly we will be a Top 10 team next year. I cant flip flop from that now but my faith is certainly shaken. Being shutout by our bitter rival leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I still believe that we have to give Charlie next year. This is still an extremely young team on both sides of the ball and you could make an argument that the only differnce making player that we lose this year is Bruton. Believe me it kills me when we lose but this negativity on this board is depressing too. Lets give Charlie next year and if there is no BCS Bowl especially with that schedule then we can show him out. Lets hope the BC game is rock bottom and we fight through these next 3 games. Go Irish
Where are all these great recruits that you fools keep crowing about? Check out BC's roster. They are all Fr-So-Jr's, just like your 4 and 5 star guys in the same classes. So why do these BC kids, who are EXACTLY THE SAME AGE kick the ever livin snot out of those frauds? I'm so sick of you suckhole apologists saying "wait until CW's recruits are 5th year seniors, then you'll see the return to glory." Gimme a friggin break. Losers.
Charlie should get one more year. However, ND should be looking at Bobby Hauck of Montana (the Jim Tressel of the Northwest). Montana graduated 26 players last year so this year should have been a rebuilding year (only 65 scholarships at the FCS level). Here Montana is at 9 -1 and headed to the playoffs again. Granted, App State will win it all but all Bobby Hauck has done is win with whatever players he has and adopted the system to the talent at hand. There are coaches out there that know how to win.
Are all of you serious?
Most of these remarks are ridiculous. Someone used the excuse that there are no ND players listed in the top 2 rounds of ESPN's projected draft... that's b/c our best players are underclassmen and won't be coming out
How about the fact that ND recruits itself and we don't even need Weis for that? Did someone tell the anonymous posters about Ty and his recruiting classes?
I saw another post about lack of experience on the coaching side, coupled with the "top talent" not producing. News flash to you... the top talent is inexperienced as well... as far as the "top talent" not producing... Have you seen Michael Floyd?
Building top programs requires time and patience (the last time I checked it was still a virtue). These comments are too representative of the culture that says give me the short-cut out of this. Becoming a champion, a true champion, takes hard work and dedication. So instead of being so pessimistic because you don't understand what it takes to build a program, I suggest we act like we're from ND; and that we know what it takes and means to be a champion. It's sometimes a long and painful process, but it makes the top that much sweeter.
Go Irish!
Yes, I'm serious, you dork. Talk about the upside of these crappy players until you're blue in the face. Here's a newsflash for you: they suck. S-U-C-K. That is why they are geting pasted by EVERBODY. Deal with it, loser.
Losing erodes memory. You are never as good as your best game and never as bad as your worst. The showing against BC on Saturday was ND's worst game of the season. The most disconcerting fact is that our offense is regressing. I think this is due to an inexperienced staff of assistant coaches. When Weis came on board, he went after guys who were great recruiters. Ianello was the recruiting coordinator at WI, Haywood the recruiting coordinator at TX--he did this to address his inexperience as a college recruiter. He thought he would not have a problem outsmarting college defenses, and that his NFL experience early in his career on the defensive side of the ball would be enough to let his great offenses win games.
Fast forward 4 years and Weis has proven himself a capable recruiter, but has been inconsistent schematically. When Weis was hired, I bought into the "offensive genius" label and in 2005 it seemed like the label fit. Now it just looks like he's too smart for his own good--game plans need to be simplified, core competencies need to be built (like a reliable running game), and the team needs to be as nasty as promised.
For the posters who talk about demoting this guy--it'll be a snowy day in hell when that happens. Weis's problem is that he's an NFL coach who runs a college program. There are dozens of NFL owners and GMs who if given the chance would hire him. Weis loves ND, but he would never stick around as the offensive coordinator if a new coach was hired. He'd wish his players well and move back to the NFL.
Weis will be the head coach at ND at least as long as Clausen is playing QB. The ND administration will not take the hit of Weis' buyout while he continues to recruit well. If nothing else, Charlie has bought himself time by making ND a desirable head coaching job again, because the fresh and sophmore classes are stocked with talent. It was not so when Charlie took the job.
I told people in August that 2009 was going to be the make or break year.
It's a young team and we've gone from having no Pass D (2006) to no offensive line (2007).
Everything else has shown improvement, and losing two close games is not the end of the world.
NICK SABAN...winner at MSU
.............winner at LSU
.............loser at MIAMI (nfl)
.............winner at ALA
BUTCH DAVIS...winner at Miami col
..............Loser at Cle (pro)
...............winner at UNC
CHARLIE.......winner at NYG (pro)
..............winner at NE (pro)
..........AND DRUM ROLL PLEASE....
loser at college...
You figure it out
what we have here is an amazing pro coach..who SUCKS in college
what we need is a Crappy Pro Coach..who is...ummmm...GREAT IN COLLEGE
lets go for JOHN GRUDEN baby...
and start winning again..BABY BABY
Charlie gets another year, and we better hope he makes the most of it.
ND has skill talent (maybe not enough at running back), and the offense will be fine if the o-line comes together. I see a lot of Saban comparisons, but I would guess that his o-line has more experience than ND's and is therefore better. Defensively, they brought in a juco man-child (Cody) that instantly made them better, and ND can't do that.
Anyone who says that ND can "recruit itself" is not in touch with today's reality. Why did recruiting drop off under Ty then?
If Weis has to be fired after next year, recruiting momentum will stop and set the program back a few more years. The next guy would have to be a dynamic recruiter as well. (Or at least have a pedigree that will attract skill players.)
I think everyone is overreacting. Who really expected this team to be that good this year? I predicted 7-5 before the season started. Also, for everyone who is calling for CW's firing, then who is guaranteed to come in here? We are going to have the same problem Tennessee, Washington, etc have right now. If we fired CW right now, these stud recruits are going to de-commit, and then we start the rebuilding process AGAIN. If we are playing like this next year then he should go, however if we give CW until 2009 then 2010 is going to be very special. Let's all take a breath and relax.
Cw reminds me of Bill Callahan in Nebraska. Very business-like with lots of excuses and no motivational skill for college kids. I will be an ND fan forever but I hate this attitude that being pushed around and bullied we will not fight back. We just don't get any fire in the belly to get after it. BC intimidated the team ND on the LOS and ND's response was as the fans said - We showed no heart. Man, this is college football - this is for the love of the game not a million dollars paycheck per game. I want to see some emotion and attitude from the players. I want to see people showing they care. I want to see people flying around and getting after each other not over analyzing if the pass was two inches off. Can you imagine players like Zorich, Bleier,Golic, or Bettis and many others playing this way. Heck can you imagine Lou or any other successful coach standing there and saying - oh well we are making progress. Win or lose I'm with the Irish but lets be real - Without enthusiasm nothing great was ever accomplished.
The talent level is great on this team but I will take a bunch of one star players who want to get after it over a bunch of five star who don't get after it. If CW can't motivate them to get after then get out the way I know a bunch of high school coaches who would love to kick some butt. But at the same time if this staff is willing to kick butt then get after it and lets see what happens.
Angry Eagle...
Enjoy your limited crappy success...while you can.
But do me a favor...get out of our house...this is NDNATION..
not Fredo Piss Ant Forum...
IF not for Clausen being banged up...and sick...thus throwing 4 picks..and pressing...we might've had a shot...
Hell..we could've easily have been 7 and 1 going into this game..and our defense only allowed 10 points...
So enjoy it while it lasts..but just wait bro..
USC was down in the 90's...they lost to ND and UCLA just about every year...
yeah we are down a lil bit..but we are a young team and we are LOADED...at the skill positions...and we have Shaq Evans and Cierre Wood coming to town...and we're gonna stomp the living crap out of you next year.
IRISH LADD
PS..We Irish are a band of brothers and we will see this thing to the end...we have just begun our fight...
Riiiiiiiiiiiight, Irish Ladd. Keep whistling past the graveyard. 6 in a row and 7 of 8. That's a polite way of saying "scoreboard." The truth is that BC is eclipsing ND as the foremost Catholic university in the country. And why wouldn't it? The same (if not better) academics, a beautiful campus, a world class city, better sports and hot chicks. You got frozen Indiana, ugly women and a goddawful football team with insufferable, whiny fans. Where would you go now? You forget Fredo was the older brother, my man. ND football is soooo 80s, like leg warmers, mullets and Rick Astley. Your team sucks, and it will continue sucking for a long, long time, with or without CW. You'll keep on flipping coaches every 4-5 years, and no one will ever want the job, just like last go around when you had to go through 10 choices (hello Urban Meyer) before finally settling for Soundbite Charlie, who suddenly became the "right guy" all along, according to ND Nation. Enjoy the ride, loser, I will.
I read Charlie blaming the loss on account of Jimmy Clausen feeling a bit under the weather. Does Charlie ever run out of excuses??? They are growing very tiresome. He should read his own book "No Excuses". GO IRISH
Let's face it, Charlie deserves no credit for the two BCS appearances. Those BCS bowl games were the result of weak scheduling, the great play of Brady Quinn (Ty's recruit) and every bowl wanting to have Notre Dame based upon name alone and financial implications, and not that we deserved to be in those games. What happened when we got there? We got smoked! We had no business being in those games. How can a team that is 1-15 versus teams with winning records get invited to BCS games? Weis is a fraud the benefitted from having Tom Brady at NE, and Brady Quinn at ND.
I don't care what all you haters say Weis is a great football coach. We will be back, and Weis will show us the way. I can't wait to hear all you haters 3 years from now promising that you loved him the whole time. We are a young team and will soon be a powerhouse, stop being cry babies and let the guy do his job. Were any of you up for the job, what makes your backseat driving as@e@ so qualified? Go Irish. Go Charlie.
great post. the truth hurts. there are some real idiots that will support anything thrown in front of them yr in and yr out. sample: anon abv"
1-If this coach didn't take 2 teams to BCS bowls (with essentially 1 top ten recruiting class), I would be more skeptical.
[yep he did, and we got our assess kicked, setting bowl losing records]
2-If changes are not made at the end of the season, I would be more skeptical.
[they were made last season dummy, don't look great now do they. let him do play calling, no let me...you'll be singing this tune forever!]
3- 7-5, 8-4, 9-3 seasons are not that different.
[oh no of course not, we got into a bcs bowl you mentioned on a 9-3 season, do you think that would happen with a 7-5 genius?]
4- This is essentially his 2nd year. He will get a 3rd." Oh OK so you're just 'essentially' out of your fucking mind bc facts like when he started coaching can be made up too!
I'm still in Weis' corner for at least one more year. I realize that he has been learning on the job but during his career, he has a track record of producing results when taking on new responsibilities. The learning curve for a head coach happens to be longer than anything he has faced before. I also realize that he works harder and is more intelligent that most of us armchair football experts. You also can not discount his recruiting. I would easily rank him as one of the ten best recruiters in the game today and probably one of the top five.
All this being said, 2009 is his put up or shut up year. He will have 4.5 recruiting classes and will finally have a full roster of 85 players. Most importantly, he will need to decide how best to solve the issue with the rushing game be it a change in assistant coach(es), blocking schemes, practice emphasis, playbook, etc.
JON GRUDEN
JON GRUDEN
JON GRUDEN
JON GRUDEN
JON GRUDEN
JON GRUDEN
JON GRUDEN
JON GRUDEN
JON GRUDEN
JON GRUDEN
JON GRUDEN
THE CLOSER
ANGRY EAGLE
you name the place and i'll be there to knock your block off.
We are the Irish and we dont quit...
scoreboard?
umm..how many NC's does BC have? umm..that would be A BIG FAT ZERO
hot chicks? what? dude..I've been to Boston...and the chicks there remind me of a frozen eskimo pie with cherry noses and fat behinds..
a beautiful campus? have you even been to ND? I think not bro..
ummm...how many pros does BC have?
how many Heismans?
dude..shut the F UP...Can't wait till CW turns the corner and we stomp your ass next year.
LOSER
Sincerly
IRISH LADD
PS...go drink some moh..beeeeer you dimwit jerk wad...oh..and umm boston...Patriots? How many super bowls have they won without CW?
zero...that's scoreboard ...boozo
To the Boston College Jag Off. The best teams you ever had were Coached by Notre Dames own Frank Leahy. You are not even close to be the National Catholic University in the United States. You are not even third best in Boston. Harvard, Boston U and MIT and Tufts are all better schools tha you are.
Plus you are all Mobbed up with poit shaver athletes and your Campus looks is in the middle of slum.
After Notre Dame I know a number of Catholic Universitys that have ten times more beautiful campuses or co-eds than the Boston Bull Dogs you call Co-Eds. Fat,Drunk,Ass Ugly Hillary Clinton types. Who would want to go to school in the USSR verson of PINKO america that is your state.
The University of San Diego is a better Catholic University than Boston College. It also has a ten times better looking Campus and Co-Eds and the school is also Catholic and Pro -Life like ND is.
So is Santa Clara,Gonzago and Loyola.
BC makes Berkley look like Nixon.
Charlie now get off your ass and win out or we are going to send you back to Boston.
That should be punishment enough to get you motivated
READ THIS JACK SWARBRICK, YOUR NEXT SEASON AT NOTRE DAME WILL START WITH AN ASS WHIPPING BY NEVADA IN OUR HOME OPENER.
COACH CHRIS AULT WILL POUND CHARLIE.
MAYBE THEN YOU CAN BRING IN YOUR NEW COACH. THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE SUCK AND CHARLIE IS OUR COACH .
NO EXCUSES CHARLIE, JUST WAIT UNTIL WE LOSE TO NEVADA BY 31 POINTS in our home opener next FALL
PLUS CHARLIE IS A PRICK to the Fans and Alums. Rocken was never arrogant or Layden,Leahy,Brennan,Ara,Devine,Faust or Holtz,Davey or even Willingham. Why because the respected what it meant to be an ND Coach to its fan base.
NOT CHARLIE WEIS. I am sure fans could fill pages of what a prick he has been to them since he got to ND. Being from New Jersy he seems to enjoy being one too.
Charlie, you have to start winning NOW. You sure aren't going to get to stick around on your peronality.
Is JOe Colletto available???
If Weis is let go how many of this years incomming recruits will non-commit? Will some players like a Tate, Floyd or Hughes transfer? Will ND get another Willingham type.... a coach that coaches ok, but recruits terrible, I say get Weis surrounded with an experienced coaching staff not let him go....at least yet
Weiss has had the good fortune to be around great coaches, but it appears he has never learned a thing. that is what happens when you hire a head coach who has no personal football experience in college. there is no more Tuna or Bill to bail him out. Bite the bullet and move on. if it takes a year to find a replacement take the year,but get moving now. he will not be able to recruit with his track record as a head coach.
I have been to ND, twice. It sucks compared to the Heights. All your NCs were a looong time ago, my friend. Navy and Army used to be really good too. Truth hurts. Any time any place? this blogger is 6'3" 250 butthead. Careful what you wish for.
Didn't the O'Leary-Ty-then Charlie experience teach us anything? Honestly, we love Notre Dame and see it as the premiere job in college football . . . but the rest of the world doesn't. Saban isn't leaving the take-the-best-athletes-who-cares-if-they-graduate mentality of the SEC to come back to the cold. Gruden already turned us down once and has some issues our administration would never go for. There is no savior waiting in the wings; this will take time and hard work. Charlie's blown a lot of things, but he's brought in the talent and he WILL get another year. (And I suspect we'll see a new O-line coach and an experienced offensive coordinator join the staff.) You're wasting your time ranting against him; shut up unless you're going to cheer for the Irish.
OMG you people all suck! Who are you people who say you will not watch anymore? What kind of fans are you? Weis and this team have struggled, but to yank the cord now would do far more harm than good. The first two years were good years, where Weis got more out of the players than was expected. Last year was Ty hammer comming down (not an excuse but a valid analysis). And this year is the first of the true rebuilding process. While not a success by ND measures, it is not a surprise to realistic fans either. Next year will be the year that ND either turns the performance corner or Weis will be done...and I think that is things don't go well Weis will take himself out before the administration is forced to. GO IRISH - fuck all you negative "fans" - GO IRISH!!!
I have read many of the comments posted and agree with many, while questioning others. However, the point is, Notre Dame needs to be overhauled from the top down. Starting with the Administrators!! ND doesn't seem interested in winning championships any more. ND is too worried about being like Stanford, Duke, and the Ivy League schools. Isn't it ironic that that ND, being a Catholic University fails to give those who are less fortunate a chance to play for the Irish?!? Where are the Chris Zorich's or the Tony Rice's?? Young men who came from tough backgrounds who can play ball and yet still take advantage of what ND has to offer in the classroom and in life. These two examples have received more out of ND and then have given back tenfold in return for the opportunity to play for the Irish. They had heart, commitment, and loyalty. Lou Holtz stated once that after a regular season loss in his first or second year at ND, that he saw an underclassmen sitting at the bench with tears in his eyes. Lou stated that these are the type of players that need to be playing because they were devoted to winning and they personally hurt when the Irish lost! ND needs to return to its roots, which is a commitment to WINNING instead of a commitment to ENTERTAINMENT.
By the way, the underclassman that was doing the crying, Chris Zorich.
I have read many of the comments posted and agree with many, while questioning others. However, the point is, Notre Dame needs to be overhauled from the top down. Starting with the Administrators!! ND doesn't seem interested in winning championships any more. ND is too worried about being like Stanford, Duke, and the Ivy League schools. Isn't it ironic that that ND, being a Catholic University fails to give those who are less fortunate a chance to play for the Irish?!? Where are the Chris Zorich's or the Tony Rice's?? Young men who came from tough backgrounds who can play ball and yet still take advantage of what ND has to offer in the classroom and in life. These two examples have received more out of ND and then have given back tenfold in return for the opportunity to play for the Irish. They had heart, commitment, and loyalty. Lou Holtz stated once that after a regular season loss in his first or second year at ND, that he saw an underclassmen sitting at the bench with tears in his eyes. Lou stated that these are the type of players that need to be playing because they were devoted to winning and they personally hurt when the Irish lost! ND needs to return to its roots, which is a commitment to WINNING instead of a commitment to ENTERTAINMENT.
By the way, the underclassman that was doing the crying, Chris Zorich.
I have read many of the comments posted and agree with many, while questioning others. However, the point is, Notre Dame needs to be overhauled from the top down. Starting with the Administrators!! ND doesn't seem interested in winning championships any more. ND is too worried about being like Stanford, Duke, and the Ivy League schools. Isn't it ironic that that ND, being a Catholic University fails to give those who are less fortunate a chance to play for the Irish?!? Where are the Chris Zorich's or the Tony Rice's?? Young men who came from tough backgrounds who can play ball and yet still take advantage of what ND has to offer in the classroom and in life. These two examples have received more out of ND and then have given back tenfold in return for the opportunity to play for the Irish. They had heart, commitment, and loyalty. Lou Holtz stated once that after a regular season loss in his first or second year at ND, that he saw an underclassmen sitting at the bench with tears in his eyes. Lou stated that these are the type of players that need to be playing because they were devoted to winning and they personally hurt when the Irish lost! ND needs to return to its roots, which is a commitment to WINNING instead of a commitment to ENTERTAINMENT.
By the way, the underclassman that was doing the crying, Chris Zorich.
I have read many of the comments posted and agree with many, while questioning others. However, the point is, Notre Dame needs to be overhauled from the top down. Starting with the Administrators!! ND doesn't seem interested in winning championships any more. ND is too worried about being like Stanford, Duke, and the Ivy League schools. Isn't it ironic that that ND, being a Catholic University fails to give those who are less fortunate a chance to play for the Irish?!? Where are the Chris Zorich's or the Tony Rice's?? Young men who came from tough backgrounds who can play ball and yet still take advantage of what ND has to offer in the classroom and in life. These two examples have received more out of ND and then have given back tenfold in return for the opportunity to play for the Irish. They had heart, commitment, and loyalty. Lou Holtz stated once that after a regular season loss in his first or second year at ND, that he saw an underclassmen sitting at the bench with tears in his eyes. Lou stated that these are the type of players that need to be playing because they were devoted to winning and they personally hurt when the Irish lost! ND needs to return to its roots, which is a commitment to WINNING instead of a commitment to ENTERTAINMENT.
By the way, the underclassman that was doing the crying, Chris Zorich.
In the discussion of a replacement for Weis, why in the world is Jim Harbaugh's name coming up? Stanford is 4-3 with USC and Cal left on their schedule. Let's practice what we preach folks. We want excellence, right? I see you may be making a point that Weis is a terrible coach and Harbaugh is better than terrible (although, at least Weis doesn't whine like a little bitch everytime something goes wrong on the field...so I'm not so sure who is better....there's a difference between showing emotion and whining, and Harbaugh falls into the latter category). But certainly if the University were to go through the enormous/risky process of buying out Weis' contract and potentially closing the recruiting gates for a few years, we certainly better do a hell of a lot better than Harbaugh. Whoever suggested that should be FIRED from commenting on this blog.
Wow,does anyone remember Joe Kuharich? Pound for pound CW has him beat. Perhaps Weis should read Tom Pagna's articles.